Author Topic: The Ultimate God / Creation Question (Read 1480 times)

myelo · « **Reply #15 on:** August 22, 2005, 09:16:08 AM »

And he's coming....

in two weeks.

ChickenHawk · « **Reply #16 on:** August 22, 2005, 11:28:53 AM »

God has always been and will always be.

As humans, everything we have seen and know about has a beginning and an end. But just because as humans we can't comprehend a God who has always existed does not make it untrue.

Rotax447 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 22, 2005, 11:34:10 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Suave
Eternity is the absence of time. Without time there is only nothing. Time is the fourth dimension, without that axis there is no molecular activity. That means no matter and no energy, without matter there can be no negative matter. Because of time, nothing does not exist. Nothing and time cannot coexist.

The spacetime metric does have a size, in that things which are larger than spacetime (i.e. have spacetime imbedded within them) will follow the laws of spacetime, and things which are smaller will not. Fermions and Bosons are larger than spacetime, so the space-like component gives them positional values, and the time-like component gives them momentum values. Time also gives us entropy and causality.

The quantum vacuum exists at the plank scale, thus spacetime has no effect on it at all. It can exist with this universe, or without it. The laws which govern itâ€™s behavior are the laws of quantum mechanics. Virtual particles blink in and out of existence. They depart and arrive, sometimes arriving before they ever departed. Their world is a world of Born probabilities and Heisenberg uncertainties. There is no spacetime.

The existence of this quantum vacuum, and the energies of the virtual particles, were experimentally verified (by the Casimir effect) in the nineteen-fifties. So, it would seem that long before we were, and long after we are not, the quantum vacuum was, is, and will be!

Rotax447

Chairboy · « **Reply #18 on:** August 22, 2005, 11:49:52 AM »

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.

There is another theory which states that this has already happened."
- The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #19 on:** August 22, 2005, 11:55:14 AM »

Physics can take us back only to 10 E-43 seconds ‘after’ creation, where relativity and quantum collide. No theory exists to explain this 10 E-43 seconds so we cannot honestly say what happened, we can only conjecture.

But in case you are interested, the big bang shows that spacetime itself was created out of the initial expansion, and hypothesizes that since the bang created time and space, there was no ‘before’ the initial instant of creation. No time, no vacuum of empty space, no nothing. If you think astronomical numbers are hard to comprehend, try to contemplate nothing at all.

Rotax447 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 22, 2005, 12:29:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Physics can take us back only to 10 E-43 seconds ï¿½afterï¿½ creation, where relativity and quantum collide. No theory exists to explain this 10 E-43 seconds so we cannot honestly say what happened, we can only conjecture.

True, because there is no theory of quantum gravity.

But in case you are interested, the big bang shows that spacetime itself was created out of the initial expansion, and hypothesizes that since the bang created time and space, there was no ï¿½beforeï¿½ the initial instant of creation.

Good point, and one always worth remembering. Big Bang is the creation of spacetime. From spacetime comes Fermions and Bosons, obeying both the laws of the quantum vacuum (quantum mechanics) and the laws of spacetime (general relativity)

No time, no vacuum of empty space, no nothing. If you think astronomical numbers are hard to comprehend, try to contemplate nothing at all.

The quantum vacuum did not come from Big Bang, rather Big Bang came from the quantum vacuum. So, before spacetime, or in spite of spacetime, there is still a quantum vacuum.

Rotax447

slimm50 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 22, 2005, 12:53:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Waffle BAS
Maybe we're just in beta testing before the actual release?

Here's what I said in another, earlier post: "The views expressed in here cover such a range of opinions, and many of them are well thought out and reasoned."

Waffle, you helped support my point. you may be onto something here.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #22 on:** August 22, 2005, 12:54:46 PM »

If spacetime is created at the Bang, then the idea of before the Bang is undefined, and no space in which any thing could exist.

In Quantum Vacuum there is no time and no space. I have a problem with expressing 'existance' of Quantum Vacuum when the concept of location within space time has no meaning.

Rotax447 · « **Reply #23 on:** August 22, 2005, 01:50:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
If spacetime is created at the Bang, then the idea of before the Bang is undefined, and no space in which any thing could exist.

In Quantum Vacuum there is no time and no space. I have a problem with expressing 'existance' of Quantum Vacuum when the concept of location within space time has no meaning.

I understand exactly what you are saying. This is not something that I can visualize within the normal four dimensional spacetime metric that I exist in.

The only way to describe the quantum vacuum is to place it in Hilbert space. We use complex numbers to describe orthogonal position vectors, momentum vectors, and their associated eigenvectors. These vectors are â€™realâ€™ only within this Hilbert space, since without a spacetime metric, there are no yardsticks, or stopwatches.

Theoretically and mathematically, these virtual particles should have existed in the quantum vacuum. This has been empirically verified by experimental physics, so this is now part of our objective reality. So, we have particles which are not real (virtual particles) existing in a mathematically constructed (Hilbert) space, and yet the effects of these particles can be accurately measured in our objective reality. The Universe is a strange place!

The energies within this quantum vacuum are enormous. Enough to create this Universe, and many more if need be. In fact, like Einsteinâ€™s cosmological constant, they are thrown out of equations, since nobody likes dealing with really large numbers:)

Rotax447

FiLtH · « **Reply #24 on:** August 22, 2005, 02:02:00 PM »

Why am I so dumb? Dad had no business being drunk that night.

Rotax447 · « **Reply #25 on:** August 22, 2005, 02:48:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by FiLtH
Why am I so dumb? Dad had no business being drunk that night.

Hell, donâ€™t feel bad FiLtH. Iâ€™m just a janitor at the University â€¦ but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night:D

Rotax447

crowMAW · « **Reply #26 on:** August 22, 2005, 05:25:44 PM »

Even beyond the question of what existed before existance is who created God? I mean, such a perfect being could not just come into exisitance randomly...an accident. There must have been some intelligent design to have made such an intricate being...one that can know everything and made every last molecule in the universe, placing each one in the exact spot where it currently resides.

There must be Supergod! But wait...who created Supergod? Damn...any being that can make such a perfect being as God must have a creator too...s/he couldn't have just accidently popped into existance! Must have been...ULTRAgod!!

But wait!!! Oh forget it...I'm getting a headache and I can't think of a prefix greater than ultra anyway.

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #27 on:** August 22, 2005, 05:38:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vulcan
Bzzzzzzzzzzt! Go back to school

Reread beetles question, then smack yourself around the head a bit.

Hey woke up about 2 min before my initial reasonce and was only barely starting my first cup of coffee when I edited.
what the hell do you expect? LOL

I absolve myself from all responsability of anything I say or do untill I've had at least 2 cups of coffee. 3 if its a store brand coffee

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #28 on:** August 22, 2005, 05:45:57 PM »

I wonder how many other now extinct worlds have pondered the same questions. Assuming there have been which doesnt at all seem unreasonable.

Hell for that matter we could just be some teenage kids from another worlds petre dish experiment.

Though sometimes I think maybe the greeks and romans had the right idea. Be it one god or many. We are here for their amusement & entertainment putting us in various situations just for the fun of seeing how we respond.

How many times have you found yourself in an otherwise astounding situation and found yourself shaking your head and looking up at the heavens and saying "Why?"
LOL

SkyWolf · « **Reply #29 on:** August 22, 2005, 06:28:42 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by ChickenHawk
But just because as humans we can't comprehend a God who has always existed does not make it untrue.

Not believing it is not the same as being unable to comprehend Him.