Author Topic: What if there was a white Jesse Jackson? (Read 2971 times)

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #30 on:** December 13, 2000, 07:25:00 AM »

1. I've never heard anyone but a white person call a "Black" Church a "Black Church". Anyone I know is simply going to church.

And.. there are white churches. They are called "Prodestant", "Catholic", "Mormon" and "Kingdom Hall" churches. There are so many "White" Churches in the US that I find it hard to believe you'd actually bring this up at all.

2. BET seems to be an enigma to me. Shows simply make it on because they have black actors. I simply wish there would be more qualification than that.

Of course... there doesn't seem to be much qualification on NBC, CBS and ABC anymore either.

3. Shouldn't really have to explain this to anyone. Comedians are all a matter of taste. If you don't like one.. don't listen. Trust me.. there are commedians that joke about EVERYONE.

4. Erm... this one is pure supposition and ignorance. But then.. you've probably never been arrested simply for being in the wrong neighborhood.

5. You hate it when you see "equal oportunity affirmitive action employer"? Well.. that's there for a reason. You see.. there was a day when people would not hire at all simply because of the race, sex, age of the person. That day was what we like to call "yesterday"... as in.. yesterday. Oh.. it still happens today.

So.. for every example you can provide where a black man, woman or whomever was hired to meet a quota... you can site several where they weren't hired simply because the quota had already been met.

AKDejaVu

[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 12-13-2000).]

Mighty1 · « **Reply #31 on:** December 13, 2000, 07:51:00 AM »

The problem is there should not be a quota in the first place.

I would never say one race is more racist than the other but as far as AA goes I found it to be one of the most offensive piece paper I've seen in a long time.

The government has no right to tell you who you can or cannot hire.

If a company does not want you there why should they HAVE to hire you?

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #32 on:** December 13, 2000, 10:14:00 AM »

LOL!

Nobody is being told who they have to hire. The government does no interviewing... the government does not provide a list of names.

I'm not big on affirmative action either. But I'm not about to deny the need for it.

I'm sorry that people are required to hire x ammount of minorities. I'm even more sorry for the minorities that were turned down jobs based on their minority status.

Complete equality is a ways off. Until then... we have laws/rules that help even things out a bit.

AKDejaVu

Lance · « **Reply #33 on:** December 13, 2000, 10:16:00 AM »

These type of laws exist to ensure an opportunity for people that until very recently were denied almost all opportunity based solely on their race. Remember, it was less than 50 years ago that black's were by law second class citizens. Long after that they were (and in some instances still are) second class individuals by societal practice.

So I don't have a problem with the government telling me I have to give someone of a specific race a job opportunity. Looking at the big picture, I realize that things like this are necessary to break racial bias in hiring practices that have existed in our society for a long time.

What is a problem for me regarding affirmative action is this: When do we get rid of it? In my mind, laws like this should be temporary measures meant to correct gross inequities of opportunity until society catches up, so to speak. They shouldn't be around forever. There are no doubt people out there that never want to see AA go away.

Gordo

[This message has been edited by Lance (edited 12-13-2000).]

Eagler · « **Reply #34 on:** December 13, 2000, 10:56:00 AM »

One place you don't see any affirmative action requirements is professional sports. How are they able to hire the most qualified individual for their needs and not to meet same quotas as big business? I think there should be more white guys in basketball. See how ridiculous affirmative action really is... The day for it has past. I'd hire the most qualified if he/she was pink and green. Color doesn't factor into it. Best bang for the buck.

Eagler

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #35 on:** December 13, 2000, 11:13:00 AM »

Bad example eagle.

BTW.. do you know why there are minorities playing in sports today?

Do you know why there is such a thing as free agency?

Any idea why women aren't competing against men in most of the sport world?

If a team tried out two players.. one black and one white.. both with equal skills... would the demographics of the city dictate wich one was hired?

An interesting euphimism from baseball recruting comes to mind: "you can teach a player most things, but you can't teach them speed". Thus.. sprint times are heavily weighed. Would a scout prefer to find a white or black player? I don't really think he'd care. He'd simply be looking at the stopwatch.

Professional sports provides a very tangeable set of goals. You reach those goals and you will succeed. In the non-sports work area, hiring is done with consideration to intangeables. Most of these criteria are purely individually motivated by that individual's life experience. That, in and of itself, is what leads to descrimination in the work place.

There is no clear set of performance indicators for most jobs. There is simply too much subjectivity. We have a hard time deciding who the best basketball player that year was given exact statistics from each player. Imagine if you only got numbers for the team? Then you had to pick who was contributing best to the team (without individual statistics) then pick who contributed more to their team than anyone from any other team?

Sports is its own world. Analogizing it to your work place isn't really aplicable.

AKDejaVu

Mighty1 · « **Reply #36 on:** December 13, 2000, 11:34:00 AM »

I disagree with you on the Gov saying who you have to hire.

In my old position of Service Manager I was a part of the hiring process and we always had to worry when a minority came in because our company was under our quota because of our location and the lack of minorities in our field. When one would come in we had to look at them first and a few times we had to choose them over more qualified people. We even had one come in a told us out right if we didn't hire him he would report us because he KNEW we were under our quota. He didn't even bother to give us a resume he just said he wanted the job or else.

Does this sound fair? No!

As a small business owner(OK the company is just me) I am offended that I would HAVE to look at the color of skin of a applicant before I even look at his resume.

AA is there to protect minorities but it discriminates against White Males.

I agree to a point something should have been done but the way AA is now it says that minorities have more rights and/or are more important than White Males.

I agree everyone IS equal and should be treated that way. AA does not provide that.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #37 on:** December 13, 2000, 12:13:00 PM »

Response to Mighty's last post: And there lies the problem, more folks abuse it with threats, and play 'the race card', thus defeating the purpose of the law, and creating even a larger 'race barrier' than existed before.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #38 on:** December 13, 2000, 12:34:00 PM »

Quote

more folks abuse it with threats, and play 'the race card', thus defeating the purpose of the law

More folks abuse it? More than whom? You really need to quantify that. More people than didn't get jobs because of race?

And.. defeating the purpose of the law? How about marring the intention of the law.

AKDejaVu

Ripsnort · « **Reply #39 on:** December 13, 2000, 12:54:00 PM »

Good points Deja, I was trying to merely give my opinion on the subject rather than making a firm statement.

Kieren · « **Reply #40 on:** December 13, 2000, 01:19:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by easymo:
Hmmmm, lets see.

Jesse Jackson is with gore.

Gen. Powell is about to become Secretary of State in the Bush administration.

How to chose. How to chose

I am SERIOUSLY becoming an easymo fan!

Too funny! You GO, boy!

easymo · « **Reply #41 on:** December 13, 2000, 01:35:00 PM »

My closest buddie in Viet Nam was a black man. Martian Luther King was killed while I was there. The news that did make it to us, from back home, indicated that blacks were rioting. In his pain and disappointment my friend questioned his role as a soldier. He said! that he should be back home fighting in the streets for his people. But, and this is a big but. He, like all his fellow black, American, soldiers continued to do his job.

The blatant unfairness of affirmative action is obvious. Yet, it pails in comparison with being drafted, and sent to kill people, for a country that treats you like a busboy. And murders your leaders.

In spite of all that was happening to them, at the time, My fellow Viet Nam vets (black) kept faith with the Constitution of the United States.

I am very proud to have had the opportunity to serve with them. And I belive, in my heart, that this same Constitution will provide them, and there descendents with the true freedom that they have EARNED.

[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 12-13-2000).]

Ripsnort · « **Reply #42 on:** December 13, 2000, 01:43:00 PM »

Easymo, good post. I <S> you for your part in the interests of the U.S. whether the 'interests' were a bad decision, or a good one. Thank God for the men of the military, black, white, yellow, or whatever...without you, there is no constitution.

Eagler · « **Reply #43 on:** December 13, 2000, 02:31:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Bad example eagle.

BTW.. do you know why there are minorities playing in sports today?

Do you know why there is such a thing as free agency?

Any idea why women aren't competing against men in most of the sport world?

If a team tried out two players.. one black and one white.. both with equal skills... would the demographics of the city dictate which one was hired?

The best bang for the buck. The company, sport franchise, will choose the employee, athlete, they can get for the lowest salary all other things equal. Your post reinforces mine. Business should be able to hire the most qualified not an individual because some government office tells them they need one more minority for some abstract balance. This sounds just as ludicrous as a football team forced to hire a white guy who runs the 50 yard dash 2 seconds slower than the slowest black guy just because the team doesn't have their quota of white guys. Sports is a business, one of the biggest with one of the largest salary bases, just look at A-rod, 1/4 of a BILLION dollars for a 10 year contract to play a game.

The day of affirmative action has past. Bigotry and ignorance, Archie Bunker style, is all but gone. Any now exposed, just sends both parties to the courts with lawyers in tow. Discrimination of all kinds is very profitable this day in age and businesses avoid it for such reasons.

Eagler

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #44 on:** December 13, 2000, 02:56:00 PM »

It doesn't reinforce your argument eagle.

Despite the fact that you can't teach speed... how long did it take to get a negro into professional baseball? Who was the driving force behind it?

How long did it take to get a Negro in any sport? At the time it was done.. did team owners refuse to allow negros into their stadiums?

To liken the AA statement to some kind of reverse-discrimination is to not really understand to what level descrimination would be taken in the US without such rules.

America was unwatched for 70 years and look what happened. I like the idea of equal treatment... I don't like that there is a need for it to be enforced Federaly. But I don't deny that the need is there.

AKDejaVu