Author Topic: Its really sad  (Read 2235 times)

Offline RightF00T

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Its really sad
« Reply #75 on: September 02, 2005, 10:25:29 PM »
LOL Curval, I read it that way too...someone is tired.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #76 on: September 03, 2005, 09:53:32 AM »
this is all pretty confusing to me...

Now you guys are saying that becuase government acted in a slow and ineffiecent manner....

we need even more and bigger government and governmental control to solve the problem?

lazs

Offline Krusher

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« Reply #77 on: September 03, 2005, 10:24:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by g00b
Why all the illogical defences for our countries poor performance?
g00b




Why the pathological rush to judge our countries performance on what certainly is the largest natural disaster in US history?

Look we all know things went wrong, the finger pointing is not helping.  Give it week and we all will support a serious investigation into what went wrong and what we can do to better prepare.

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #78 on: September 03, 2005, 11:30:53 AM »
Skyprancer,

No one questions your interest in the situation. Several of us certainly question your intent in the manner of your posts. Frankly the majority of what you put on the bbs is negative, non constructive and comes accross as arrogant and derogatory. If you cannot see that, I can't help you. Frankly you don't help a damn bit in what you say and it makes some of us rather angry.

Goob.

Lets examone what you say here. First they did not have 5 days advance warning of a cat 5 huricane. They sure didn't have 5 days warning of where it was going to hit and where the most damage was going to be. Given that the last turn before hitting shore was less than 10 hours before land fall it is a bit hard to decide where to "pre plan" and pre place supplies.

There was not 5 days warning of the magnitude of the storm. Remember it hit Florida and didn't do much at all even though parts of that state are still recovering from hurricanes from prior years.

Given the state of technology no one could predict it was going to ramp up to cat 5 in the 2 days before it hit LA. and Mississippi much less where it was going to hit over the rather large area of the gulf coast.

Just in what kind of facilities are they going to place those supplies at? They can't simply drive a bunch of trucks to a spot on the road and just dump it or stop and wait. If the main access road into the area is cut how are they supposed to get the trucks to that area? Who is going to decide exactly how many of those supplies are going to be needed? You? Based on what?

Like it or not, there is no agency that has the money and resources to have equipment, manpower and supplies of all types standing by waiting to jump into action at a mopments notice. Like I said before it takes about 24 hours just to get orders cut and that is AFTER a determination is made that the Nat Guard in any area will be needed. BTW that is a state responsibility, the Nat. Guard belongs to them and they have the primary mission of civil defense and disaster relief. Adjoining states can't send their troops over until they are federalized. Again someone has to know they will be needed, know how many will be needed and where, then cut the orders and gather the troops together. Activating a unit, in good times, takes 24 to 72 hours before they can move out. I've been a Mobilization Officer and have had to help plan for this in my home state and in Ft. Jackson South Carolina. That includes using Guard, Reserve and Active Duty units to get it done. The larget the mobilization the longer it takes as the more resources for transportation they need to get it done.

Once they troops are activated you must move supplies from some place else to the area where they can be delivered close to the area of need. You still have to move them, mostly by truck and you need roads for that. Remember the majority of the helos were being used for rescue, not supplies and helos are limited by what they can carry and how much fuel is available. Fuel has to be brought in, it isn't there to use as it's UNDER WATER and contaminated.

It takes a day or 2 to locate and start to move the supplies. Now we are up to day 3 at the earliest to day 4, pretty much what happened. After the equipment is there it has to be reloaded to deliver to an area where it can get to the folks who need it and a distruibution point. Another day so now we're at day 5.

Guess what, that is almost exactly the time schedule as it happened.

Budget cuts do not allow stockpiling of misc supplies and equipment in areas for a "just in case" scenario. Supplies are purchased on a as needed basis and the same for heavy equipment. Supplies also have a definite shelf life. You cannot exceed that time and still use them.  That includes fuel, food and other consumable items like medical supplies. It has been years since the old cold war civil defense stock piles were expired and destroyed or consumed, the shelters deactivated and turned to other uses.

The city was under a mandatory evacuation. From the footage of the area and in particular the looters it's quite obvious a lot of very able bodied folks did not evacuate. Rescuers have seen car after car still in the driveways of homes under water. Transportation wasn't an issue for everyone that stayed behind. Given that this was an area that was populated by people who are not prisoners, they could not be forcably ejected from their homes even if there was enough Police to do the job which there wasn't.

Got a clue for you here on another issue. If you understand people in a stressfull situation you have to know that getting help to a large group requires structure. If you just dump a bunch of stuff by air you'll get a mob situation and cause more casualties than you could possibly prevent. The most able bodied will move out very fast and it will be who can get the most stuff the fastest and the devil take the hind most. That means it won't be equitably distributed and the weak will be hurt trying to get it, IF it lands where it can be reached. The items dropped by air are also heavy and you can't drop it right on the people without killing them. Dispersion is also a normal function of dropping small items by air and a 5 lb package dropped at 175 MPH from 750 to 1000' will do some serious damage both to the item dropped and the object or person it lands on. It will take a higher drop due to the tall buildings in the area of a major city.

Now this post has been long enough but I am pretty PO'ed at some of the criticism levied on a situation that could not be forseen or prepared for. It's rather obvious that several of the posts are from folk, who frankly have no clue about what is involved in disaster planning and response issues. Before you simply dump crap on your keyboard and complain (the term is female dog) stop and try to think about how it would have to be done and look to see what is being done.

Laz is quite right in a couple things. The government is not prescient, omnipotent and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. It can only react in a lot of cases and given the reality of getting things done, takes time to make things happen.
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Offline Skydancer

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Its really sad
« Reply #79 on: September 03, 2005, 12:03:14 PM »
Hey Mav the attitude of righteousness and superiority displayed by some of your fellow countrymen regarding the rest of the world makes a few people damn angry too I'm sure. But we can't all hold ther same opinion. I sincerely think a BBs is a discussion board. That means people discuss and share their opinions doesn't it. We have all sorts in here.

Personaly I rarely get damn angry by what I read in here. Its interesting enlightening sometimes. I've had my opinion changed and learned some stuff too.

I'm sorry my opininion makes you angry. I don't share em to do that I share em because I think about these issues too, and want to get involved in the discussion. Maybe you ought to consider that it is a positive thing for people from other places to be interested enough in where you are from to want to get involved in the discussion and care about what is going on. Be a poor show if we were all only concerned about our own little bit of real estate wouldn't it?

I have been accused of being full of hatred and arrogance etc by other members. including the guy who holds the keys to this place. I can only surmise that there is some kind of culture gap going on here. In my country it is quite normal for people to hold extremely opposing views and still be mates discuss and argue things over a pint etc without thinking the other is some kind of lunatic, or accusing them of hatred and intolerance!

No offense is meant ok.

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #80 on: September 03, 2005, 12:39:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer
I have been accused of being full of hatred and arrogance etc by other members. including the guy who holds the keys to this place.  


There is another possible conclusion. Let me praphrase it. If several people tell you you smell like a goat, it is illogical to assume that their noses are defective rather than your hygene is.
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #81 on: September 03, 2005, 12:42:45 PM »
I have been to england and I have met a lot of english people.... believe me.... there is a HUGE cultural gap... so much so that we can't even talk about the same subject and understand what the other person is saying...

things that your people take for granted as being a truth are just the oppossite for us..   things you revere and expect that everyone does.... we despise and try to wipe out... your basic ideas of government and freedom differ wildly from ours.

both sides take certain things for granted about what people want and need and both sides are wrong when it comes to the other.

To me... Talking to you is like talking to a martian.

That being said.... there are people here that have a british mindset and would be happier in your country (except for the weather of course) and I have met some brits that would be happier living in America.... in fact, I know several who live here now that are thrilled to be here instead of england... they grow farther from it every day.  

 One I know lives out on a farm and has a remington pump 12 guage and a Smith .357 revolver... he enjoys tweaking his british visitors by shooting them in the back yard...  He still sounds british... but..

lazs

Offline Skydancer

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« Reply #82 on: September 03, 2005, 12:43:16 PM »
Oh boy Maverik do read all the post or just the bit that lets you aim another kick?

Offline Skydancer

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« Reply #83 on: September 03, 2005, 12:46:03 PM »
Hey Lazs



:aok

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #84 on: September 03, 2005, 12:46:36 PM »
Yes I did read it. I figured you would recognise the situation if I used your own words. I was wrong. I have no idea of how else to express it to you that I have not already used.
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
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Offline Skydancer

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Its really sad
« Reply #85 on: September 03, 2005, 12:49:11 PM »
Are you always right then:lol

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #86 on: September 03, 2005, 01:14:00 PM »
Ok...I give up... what does the helmeted bowling ball woth the LSD background have to do with anything?

and.. I am sure maverick is wondering.... are you ever right?   I know I am wondering it.

lazs

Offline Skydancer

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« Reply #87 on: September 03, 2005, 06:35:49 PM »
He's Marvin the Martian. Surely you seen him. You guys made the loony toons!

Oh I'm both wrong about some things a right about others. Just like most people.

The trick is working out when I'm right and when I'm wrong.

Pity Mav couldn't read the bit about

"I'm sorry my opininion makes you angry. I don't share em to do that I share em because I think about these issues too, and want to get involved in the discussion. Maybe you ought to consider that it is a positive thing for people from other places to be interested enough in where you are from to want to get involved in the discussion and care about what is going on. Be a poor show if we were all only concerned about our own little bit of real estate wouldn't it?"

or

"In my country it is quite normal for people to hold extremely opposing views and still be mates discuss and argue things over a pint etc without thinking the other is some kind of lunatic, or accusing them of hatred and intolerance!

No offense is meant ok."

He just chose one line and continued in that oh so condescending tone! Oh well nevermind guess he wouldn't buy me a pint.;):lol



(Whatever happened to that crazy jb88 arty bloke? just an idle thought!)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2005, 06:41:15 PM by Skydancer »

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #88 on: September 03, 2005, 09:05:55 PM »
Skydancer last post to reply to you and you can have the last word I don't care as you are beneath notice as far as I am concerned any more.

Like I said before, I did read your post. The problem is you have such a negative manner in speaking that comes accross as very arrogant, and certainly self serving. Now you are not here in the states, you are not getting the entire information and your comments are out of line. You don't argue except to be obtuse, you just lambast and criticise.

The best thing you can do is have a nice big cup of STFU. You even admit that you have been told by several folks including those responsible for the bbs that your posts are not appreciated. Take a freaking hint, better yet, take a hike and go away.


Skuzzy if you feel this is over the top I can understand it if you delete it but I frankly am fed up with this load of manure being sent over from the Brit side. I cannot believe that this is a shinnig example of that society.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2005, 09:15:02 PM by Maverick »
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #89 on: September 03, 2005, 10:27:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer
He's Marvin the Martian. Surely you seen him. You guys made the loony toons!

Oh I'm both wrong about some things a right about others. Just like most people.

The trick is working out when I'm right and when I'm wrong.

Pity Mav couldn't read the bit about

"I'm sorry my opininion makes you angry. I don't share em to do that I share em because I think about these issues too, and want to get involved in the discussion. Maybe you ought to consider that it is a positive thing for people from other places to be interested enough in where you are from to want to get involved in the discussion and care about what is going on. Be a poor show if we were all only concerned about our own little bit of real estate wouldn't it?"

or

"In my country it is quite normal for people to hold extremely opposing views and still be mates discuss and argue things over a pint etc without thinking the other is some kind of lunatic, or accusing them of hatred and intolerance!

No offense is meant ok."

He just chose one line and continued in that oh so condescending tone! Oh well nevermind guess he wouldn't buy me a pint.;):lol



(Whatever happened to that crazy jb88 arty bloke? just an idle thought!)



Sky,

 It is not your opinion that pisses people off,  it is your attitude and how you present that opinion.

You come off, very often as a high and mighty know it all. That is hard to swallow when you are talking about something you know very little about. (like guns, US politics, this storm, etc)

Hell it's hard to take when you do know what your talking about.

No one it telling you, you cant have an opinion, just stop acting like it is more then that.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2005, 10:29:26 PM by GtoRA2 »