Author Topic: Shameless solicitation  (Read 761 times)

Offline Oldman731

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« on: September 02, 2005, 12:46:24 PM »
There's no reason I can think of why we couldn't implement setups invented by non-CM types.  This week's setup by 68KO, a recent one by Storch, and the fightertowns we ran are all good examples, and some of them worked really well (looks sideways at fighertown).

No guarantee that they'll get run, but I'd sure like to see some posted here, so that I can save them for future use.

- oldman

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2005, 01:08:51 PM »
CBI, 1944-45:

Allies:

B-24J
C-47A
Hurricane Mk IIc
Mosquito Mk VI
P-47D-25
Spitfire Mk IX
Spitfire Mk XIV (added later for 1945)
The Ms.

Japanese:

A6M2 (Ki-43 sub)
Bf110C-4b (Ki-45 sub)
C-47A (Tabby sub)
Ki-61-I-Tei
Ki-67
Ki-84-I-Ko
The Ms
Petals floating by,
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             As she remembers me-

Offline tikky

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« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2005, 02:04:33 PM »
dont forget P-40s (lets sub E for N) for CBI;)

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2005, 02:28:02 PM »
I disagree.  I don't think that one side should just get to swamp the other with aircraft variety.  The P-40E was not, so far as I know, in service in 1944/45 and the performance of the P-40N was far, far different.

I limited it to aircraft I knew were there, with some subs for the Japanese due to the paucity of the Japanese planeset.  You could probably produce arguments for the P-38s and P-51s too, but at that point why not just enable all of the Allied aircraft?

Particularly this was envisioned as a British vs Japanese setup.  I know the Brits were using the P-47D-25 and B-24J in the CBI, so I included them.
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Offline Slash27

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« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2005, 02:34:46 PM »
Looks good Karnak.

storch

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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2005, 07:11:24 PM »
I like that idea,  what map? also why not just enable the whole IJF inventory.  the A6M5 should certainly be there.

Offline Slash27

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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2005, 07:20:16 PM »
also why not just enable the whole IJF inventory.


Yep, the N1K would be a help too.

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2005, 12:27:53 PM »
They would help, but the IJN wasn't in the CBI area really.

Ki-43-I: 308mph, two 7.7mm machine guns or one 7.7mm machine gun and one 12.7mm machine gun or two 12.7mm machine guns, no protection whatsoever.

Ki-43-II: 320mph, two 12.7mm machine guns and wing racks for two 250kg bombs, limited armor and self sealing tanks.

Ki-43-III: 363mph, two 12.7mm machine guns and wing racks for two 250kg bombs or, rarely, two 20mm cannons and wing racks for two 250kg bombs, limited armor and self sealing tanks.


The Ki-43-II was the most produced version, and neither the A6M2 or A6M5 really are a great match for it.  The A6M5 is closest to the rare Ho-5 armed Ki-43-II-Otsu, where the speed of the A6M2 is reasonably close to the Ki-43-II.
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Offline TheBug

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« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2005, 03:39:56 PM »
Posted before but worth repeating, at least in my warped mind :aok


2nd Tactical Airforce Spring/Summer '44

Situation:The 2nd Tactical Air Force (2nd TAF) was formed to support the Allied invasion of, and subsequent ground operations in, Western Europe. The campaign in North Africa had proved the value of highly mobile and responsive air forces acting in direct support of the ground troops. Prior to the operations in Sicily and Italy, the air elements supporting the 1st and 8th Armies were combined to form the 1st Tactical Air Force, popularly known as the Desert Air Force. In preparation for the invasion of Western Europe, the formation of a second tactical air force began in Britain in June 1943 drawing in existing squadrons from Fighter, Bomber, and Army Co-Operation Commands.

Initially, 2nd TAF comprised three groups. There were two close support groups, consisting of fighters, fighter bombers and reconnaissance aircraft to provide intimate support to the two armies that comprised the 21st Army Group, the British Commonwealth contribution to the invasion of western Europe. 83 and 84 Groups would operate with, respectively, the 2nd British and 1st Canadian Armies. The third group was intended for more general support and to fulfil this role 2 Groups, consisting of light and medium bombers, was transferred from Bomber Command. In order to provide the flexibility required to support highly mobile ground operations the maintenance components of each squadron were separated to form independent airfield operating units, the role of which was to establish forward landing grounds from which any squadron could operate. In early 1944 85 group - a fourth - was added to 2nd TAF to provide protection for Allied base areas both in southern England, and in Europe once the invasion began.

2nd TAF, alongside its American equivalent the United States 9th Air Force, carried out its intended role throughout the operations in western Europe during 1944 and early 1945. The weight of aerial firepower that the Allied armies had at their disposal proved telling in their victory over the Germans.


Planeset:


2nd Tactical Airforce OOB

Spitfire Mk IX
Typhoon Ib
Mustang III
Boston III
Mosquito Mk VI
Lancaster III

Seafire IIc (perked 5 points)
Spitfire Mk XIV (perked 25 points)
Tempest V (perked 35 points)

Luftwaffe OOB

Bf 109G-6
Fw 190A-5
Fw 190A-8
Ju 88A-4
Ju 87D-3

Bf 110G-2(perked 15 points)

Standard vehicles for the time period will be available, with Tiger perked 25 points.

Setup:

ALL PERKS WILL BE RESET!

There will be NO Dot-DAR only Bar-DAR.

Field Capture will be OFF!!, yes I said OFF.

Fields will be captured but this will be achieved in non-convential ways, through CT administrated
"Operational" nights.

First night will be Friday at 9pm-12pm EST, it will cover the air ops leading up to the invasion. The Allies will
be given a set of objectives to complete within the three hours. All bases in England will be Allied all on the
Continent will be Luftwaffe. The Luftwaffe objectives for the second Operational night will hinge on the Allies
success or failure.

Second night will be Sunday night 8-11pm EDT, this will be invasion night! The Vehicle bases 100-103 will
become Allied, these are the invasion beaches. Allied vehicles only will become available here. It will be
up to the Luftwaffe/Wehrmacht to slow the landing of supplies as much as possible.(The invasion can not be stopped).
The base availabilty in the next Operational night for the Allies will hinge on the Luftwaffe's success or failure.

Third night will be Tuesday night 9pm-12pm EDT, it will cover the Breakout phases(Operation Cobra). The Allies will
recieve single-engine aircraft at "forward bases". If the Luftwaffe achieves no objectives on the second night, the
Allies will control V98 through V103 and A60 as FBs. One Objective V98-v103 will be Allied, two V99-V103 and finally if all four were achieved only v100-103 will be Allied FBs. For this frame the Allies will be charged with "capturing" Cherbourg(Also Caen if not taken with invasion). If they fail in capturing both the setup will remain as is for the rest of the week.

If the Allies succeed we move to the last night, Thursday night 9pm-12pm EDT. This will cover the Falaise gap. Allies will control all the bases they have captured so far. The German bases A41,42,76,77 and 78 will be considered the Falaise Gap and the Allies will be charged with closing all these bases, as they close them they capture them automatically. Only German vehicles will be allowed to spawn from these bases. Whatever the Allies capture by 11pm will stay Allied for the remainder of the week.
“It's a big ocean, you don't have to find the enemy if you don't want to."
  -Richard O'Kane

Offline Grits

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« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2005, 05:05:19 PM »
I appreciate the work you did on that Bug, its clear you did a lot of research. I have no doubt its accurate, but the problem is the LW will get slaughtered, nobody would fly it on the Axis side.

Offline TheBug

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« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2005, 06:21:53 PM »
The Spit IX and the P51b are capable of "slaughtering" the A5?  I have to disagree there, but things may have changed :confused:

If it's the Tempest and the Spit XIV that you are referring to the perk points would be open to adjustment to reflect their rarity.

Also I have no motivation in appeasing the current CT crowd.  Now don't take that as harsh as it sounds.  I think the hodgpodge of ideas the CT has experimented with has helped in it's decline.  I think it should be solidly based in the foundation of a historical arena.  Then the historical based squads, will have a home to call their own and it's my belief that the numbers would again rise above mere life support conditions.

Build it and they will come, is my dream.  Which regrettably may entail some leaving.   I understand your concern Grits, but  "nobody would fly it on the Axis side" is a step in the right direction in my again warped mind.:rolleyes:
“It's a big ocean, you don't have to find the enemy if you don't want to."
  -Richard O'Kane

Offline Grits

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« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2005, 07:04:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TheBug
The Spit IX and the P51b are capable of "slaughtering" the A5?  I have to disagree there, but things may have changed :confused:


Yes, you and I can hold our own in an A-5 against a Spit IX or 51b, but I think most could not. Its not a single Spit or 51 against a single A-5 that is the problem, its the combination. The A-5 cant turn with the Spit, and it cant turn with or[/i] run from the 51.
Quote

Also I have no motivation in appeasing the current CT crowd.  Now don't take that as harsh as it sounds.  I think the hodgpodge of ideas the CT has experimented with has helped in it's decline.  I think it should be solidly based in the foundation of a historical arena.  Then the historical based squads, will have a home to call their own and it's my belief that the numbers would again rise above mere life support conditions.[/b]


No problem Bug, I think this needs to be hashed out so everyone knows where we all stand on these issues. Let me ask you this then, who do you think is going to fly there? Where are all these "historical based squads" going to come from? There aren't any left other than JG54 and I can tell you they would not like this setup much, and I cant say I'd blame them one bit.

Quote

Build it and they will come, is my dream.  Which regrettably may entail some leaving.   I understand your concern Grits, but  "nobody would fly it on the Axis side" is a step in the right direction in my again warped mind.:rolleyes: [/B]


On some issues you and I are very close, some we are not, there is nothing wrong with that. I share your ideas on Dar settings, I think in the CT the less Dar the better, PROVIDED there are more than 5 people in there.

Your setup is historically correct as I said, that does not mean it is a good one. Setups dont have to be perfectly fair and balanced, they rarely are, but one side can not totally dominate the other, both have to have at least a fighting chance. Never forget this is a game.

Offline TheBug

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« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2005, 08:12:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Grits

No problem Bug, I think this needs to be hashed out so everyone knows where we all stand on these issues. Let me ask you this then, who do you think is going to fly there? Where are all these "historical based squads" going to come from? There aren't any left other than JG54 and I can tell you they would not like this setup much, and I cant say I'd blame them one bit.



Hashing it out is the one issue I find very important, so I am glad we agree there.  The other stuff is very easily tweaked, modified, and discussed.  Something I am very open to doing, as long as it appears to have direction, order and effect.  To this point I have seen almost none of that in any CT discussion.  Yes, there have been exceptions and yes I'm as guilty as any at mud-slinging.  But I do know the CT ain't gonna "fix" itself.

As for historical squads, they will come.  They are out there, many ex-CT'ers from historical squads are most definitely keeping a close eye on this forum.  Many new ones will form from the pilots who seek a little more than a dogfight arena.  Then once again, when the historical squads form the backbone of the CT the numbers will rise.  But all features, options, settings, and setups should solidly been in support of a historical arena, to serve historical squads.

I am sure almost nobody that frequents this forum will find any of that pleasing to the ear.  But you have to remember, there are NO historical based squads(as far as I define one) left in the CT.  Yes it's a gamble, most definitely it's solely my opinion.  But I can't help but feel that a solid historical arena will fair far better than the latest version(s) of the CT.

Just a few quick questions-  Would you fly a 190A-5 in that setup, under fair numbers and possibly working in cooperation with your side?  Would you prefer to fly with like minded individuals in an arena with a comfortable number, say 20-25? Or would you prefer to cater a setup to get as many warm bodies into the arena as possible, no matter their attitude.

I like you Grits, and think you have a great gaming attitude.  I think an arena filled with people sharing that attitude, but providing their own uniqueness would be a great place to spend precious free time.  But I am in belief that it is the enviroment itself that dictates the species that inhabit it.  Along those lines it is my opinion(yes I know you are an exception) that squads following a historical base maintain a player base with excellent attitude.  It is also my opinion that having a historical name doesn't make a squad "historical",  per my defintion.

Well now that I've thoroughly hijacked Oldman's thread(sorry about that OM)  I will leave it at that, but would be willing to continue this discussion in another thread if any are interested.
“It's a big ocean, you don't have to find the enemy if you don't want to."
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Offline o0Stream140o

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« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2005, 07:57:32 PM »
I honestly keep up with the CT BBS Thread, usually I watch for a set up that I want to fly.  I know I don't put the hours I used to in the CT, but like Bug said... If you fix it,  they will come.

Good to see you Bug.

Offline Oldman731

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« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2005, 07:26:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by TheBug
Also I have no motivation in appeasing the current CT crowd.  Now don't take that as harsh as it sounds.  I think the hodgpodge of ideas the CT has experimented with has helped in it's decline.  I think it should be solidly based in the foundation of a historical arena.  Then the historical based squads, will have a home to call their own and it's my belief that the numbers would again rise above mere life support conditions.

For a counterpoint, you need only read Crumpp's recent post in the September 2 thread.  I guess this is a tension we've always had in the CT.  Players want historical accuracy.  Players want balance (except for those who enjoy abuse).  Players also want variety.  Achieving all of these goals, with the plane set available, isn't easy.

As others have pointed out (glances at Grits), the CT has never really recovered from the switch to AH2.  Collectively, we've floundered around trying different approaches to attracting people back here.  None has worked thus far.  I'm inclined to agree with you that we'll only ever be able to appeal to a small, dedicated crowd.  The question is, who are they?  While I'd like to believe that there is a group of accuracy afficionados out there, I really have seen no evidence of their existence.  OTOH, our fightertown experiments, and our fussing with radar settings, have shown that the "I just want to find a good fight" crowd isn't beating down the doors, either.

I'm certainly open to suggestions, and I think the rest of the staff is, too.  When it's my rotation (or someone else's!) we'll try out some of the setups suggested here, see if they make a difference.

- oldman (and I appreciate the hijacking)