They Knew!

[Sandman]

Maybe it's too soon to ask such things, but you have to wonder what the local government was doing about this. They knew that a hurricane surge was probable years ago.

Anyway... have a look.

Linky

This page is also interesting.






...and NO, you don't get to blame Bush. The states have a responsibility to their own citizens.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Sandman


...and NO, you don't get to blame Bush. The states have a responsibility to their own citizens.

AMEN Sandy.


OTOH people are acting like this could have been prevented and they KNEW exactly the path of the hurrican a week in advance.

How many roads go into NO?  Not too many.

[oboe]

I thought the Army Corp of Engineers had major responsibility for inland waterways, rivers, dams, locks, levees, etc?

If that's true, doesn't that make it at least partially a federal responsibility?    And as I say that, I recognize the problem has existed for years, across both Republican and Democratic administrations.

[Sandman]

Hmmm... good question. Definitely throws a wrench into the states' rights discussions we've had recently.

[Hangtime]

they'll get this one figured out right about when kalifonica plops into the pacific.

i'm thinking of buying land in Port Salt Lake.

If the state is gone, who's rights got violated.. errr who's responsible?

[lazs2]

Sandie...you mean if it is possible for people to get killed in a hurricane then we should do away with states rights and just have a huge central government?

If the state government was hiding something you sue em..  if not... shame on you for living there.   Do you think the feds would ever keep something secret that might harm U.S. citizens?  You really trust the feds that much?

lazs

[Sandman]

Look at it from the perspective that I support state's rights (which I do).

As a state, should I expect the federal government to fund upgrades and maintenance to a levee system that shouldn't have been there in the first place?

Is it realistic to blame the Army COE?

[Jackal1]

Bureaucracy in it`s pure form.
Everyone wants the official credit when something is done. Nobody wants the resposibility in case something goes wrong.
It goes on and on for years on end.
Paper work shuffling, conflict in the ranks and departments........and the public ends up losing in every instance.
Just like the delays in getting relief in a.s.a.p. after the disaster.
Shuffle paperwork, argue over who is going to do and who has the rights, control and responsibility, but most of all who will get the credit and publicity. All this while people, our people, are dieing.
Very eye opening.

[Maverick]

I agree with a much earlier post. It's the French's fault for starting the city there.

The COE didn't put the city there, they just tried to make a really crappy location a bit better for what has already been established.

Sandy, you're right. The Feds don't have the authority to tell a state, or city, where a community can be located absent a state of war or NATIONAL emergency like WW2 and the start of Oak Ridge.

Laz, in this case Sandy is on your side.

[Dinger]

The buck stops somewhere guys. You can say it's fair game if the COE's budget is slashed from 120M to 80M, while we spend $250M to build a bridge in Alaska to an island with 30 (that's 3-0) inhabitants, but something is screwy.

And yes, they knew. They knew a damn long time ago. And many of those that knew were asked to resign to avoid being fired.

[Wotan]

The COE can build dikes and levees but its the City and City planners / developers who pumped away the ground water causing the the city to sink in the first place.

NO isn't sinking 'naturally'. Why should the Fed government be forced to subsidize the poor choices of others?

The State and Local Government knew for years the risk a Cat 3 Hurricane or higher posed to their state and city. In NO they had no plan beyond 'go to the Super Dome' to starve and crap on the floor...

The Mayor then cries about how awful the Federal Government's response was. It was reported that only 50% of the Police in NO were reporting for duty, Firefighters and other city workers were no where to found yet its the Federal Governments fault that the savages are running wild.

Its not the Army Corp of Engineers responsibility to dole out 'common sense'.

It's a terrible thing and the Fed Government should be there to help but any blame that gets handed out ought to start fist with 'nature' and end up in the lap of those whose responsibility it was to plan for these things; State and Local Government.

[soda72]

I think it's starts with the State and Local Governments, IMHO they failed to install a sense of urgency about the seriousness of the situation.   If the local government at the disaster site doesn't know what is going on how do they expect the Federal Government to know?   However I'm not about to give GWB a pass either.  Overall, he is responsible for the safety and welfare of the country as a whole and the federal response was way to slow.

[rpm]

The levy system along the Mississippi is FEDERAL property. The Corps is responsable for maintenence and upgrades. I'm sure a portion of the bill is delegated to the state, but the lion's share is federal.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by rpm
The levy system along the Mississippi is FEDERAL property. The Corps is responsable for maintenence and upgrades. I'm sure a portion of the bill is delegated to the state, but the lion's share is federal.

ok so lets look at this with an ounce of logic.  If they HAD the funding the last couple of years would they have been able to build the levey to withstand this hurricane?

my guess is no.  They've dumped millions of dollars into it over the past few years and it is what it is.

[Wotan]

The State and local Government knew that the levees around NO were only built to withstand a Cat 3 at best.

The responsibility to get residents to safety is the responsibility of the State and Local Government.

In NO, especially, the local government failed the residents prior to the storm hitting and they weren't any where near prepared to deal with the aftermath irregardless of what the Federal Government did or failed to do.

That's where the 'buck stops'.

fyi,

The levee system was effective except in  a few places. For the most part the levees with stood more they then were rated for. Its unfortunate that they gave way where they did and I am sure that the COE will be looking at why they failed.

However, there is no excuse for the failures of the  local governments. As Sandman said, 'They Knew!'.