Author Topic: To provide for....  (Read 1687 times)

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2005, 11:58:50 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
Hmmm... this disaster highlights the failure of our nation's welfare system(s). We've created entire generations of dependent people, incapable of fending for themselves.

I suspect that some states are worse than others, hell... there might even be some worse than Louisiana.


flood the inner city of any large US city and you'd see the identical problems
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


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Offline Yeager

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« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2005, 12:17:48 PM »
Inside the rotted core of every large american city is a 3rd world country.

Get out of Iraq NOW :D
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Offline SirLoin

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« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2005, 12:21:26 PM »
I don't understand..Why didn't the state ask for help asap?:confused:
**JOKER'S JOKERS**

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2005, 01:53:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin
I don't understand..Why didn't the state ask for help asap?:confused:

long read,  but worth it. it came down to lack of personal responsibility that apparently was not part of the mayor, nor the govenors upbringing.
Blame Amid the Tragedy

Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin failed their constituents.

BY BOB WILLIAMS
Wednesday, September 7, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT

As the devastation of Hurricane Katrina continues to shock and sadden the nation, the question on many lips is, Who is to blame for the inadequate response?

As a former state legislator who represented the legislative district most impacted by the eruption of Mount St. Helens in 1980, I can fully understand and empathize with the people and public officials over the loss of life and property.

Many in the media are turning their eyes toward the federal government, rather than considering the culpability of city and state officials. I am fully aware of the challenges of having a quick and responsive emergency response to a major disaster. And there is definitely a time for accountability; but what isn't fair is to dump on the federal officials and avoid those most responsible--local and state officials who failed to do their job as the first responders. The plain fact is, lives were needlessly lost in New Orleans due to the failure of Louisiana's governor, Kathleen Blanco, and the city's mayor, Ray Nagin.

The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies does not belong to the federal government. It belongs to local and state officials who are charged by law with the management of the crucial first response to disasters. First response should be carried out by local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the state governor and his emergency operations center.

The actions and inactions of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin are a national disgrace due to their failure to implement the previously established evacuation plans of the state and city. Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin cannot claim that they were surprised by the extent of the damage and the need to evacuate so many people. Detailed written plans were already in place to evacuate more than a million people. The plans projected that 300,000 people would need transportation in the event of a hurricane like Katrina. If the plans had been implemented, thousands of lives would likely have been saved.

In addition to the plans, local, state and federal officials held a simulated hurricane drill 13 months ago, in which widespread flooding supposedly trapped 300,000 people inside New Orleans. The exercise simulated the evacuation of more than a million residents. The problems identified in the simulation apparently were not solved.





A year ago, as Hurricane Ivan approached, New Orleans ordered an evacuation but did not use city or school buses to help people evacuate. As a result many of the poorest citizens were unable to evacuate. Fortunately, the hurricane changed course and did not hit New Orleans, but both Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin acknowledged the need for a better evacuation plan. Again, they did not take corrective actions. In 1998, during a threat by Hurricane George, 14,000 people were sent to the Superdome and theft and vandalism were rampant due to inadequate security. Again, these problems were not corrected.
The New Orleans contingency plan is still, as of this writing, on the city's Web site, and states: "The safe evacuation of threatened populations is one of the principle [sic] reasons for developing a Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan." But the plan was apparently ignored.

Mayor Nagin was responsible for giving the order for mandatory evacuation and supervising the actual evacuation: His Office of Emergency Preparedness (not the federal government) must coordinate with the state on elements of evacuation and assist in directing the transportation of evacuees to staging areas. Mayor Nagin had to be encouraged by the governor to contact the National Hurricane Center before he finally, belatedly, issued the order for mandatory evacuation. And sadly, it apparently took a personal call from the president to urge the governor to order the mandatory evacuation.

The city's evacuation plan states: "The city of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas." But even though the city has enough school and transit buses to evacuate 12,000 citizens per fleet run, the mayor did not use them. To compound the problem, the buses were not moved to high ground and were flooded. The plan also states that "special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific lifesaving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed." This was not done.

The evacuation plan warned that "if an evacuation order is issued without the mechanisms needed to disseminate the information to the affected persons, then we face the possibility of having large numbers of people either stranded and left to the mercy of a storm, or left in an area impacted by toxic materials." That is precisely what happened because of the mayor's failure.

Instead of evacuating the people, the mayor ordered the refugees to the Superdome and Convention Center without adequate security and no provisions for food, water and sanitary conditions. As a result people died, and there was even rape committed, in these facilities. Mayor Nagin failed in his responsibility to provide public safety and to manage the orderly evacuation of the citizens of New Orleans. Now he wants to blame Gov. Blanco and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. In an emergency the first requirement is for the city's emergency center to be linked to the state emergency operations center. This was not done.





The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of a governor. President Bush declared an emergency prior to Katrina hitting New Orleans, so the only action needed for federal assistance was for Gov. Blanco to request the specific type of assistance she needed. She failed to send a timely request for specific aid.
In addition, unlike the governors of New York, Oklahoma and California in past disasters, Gov. Blanco failed to take charge of the situation and ensure that the state emergency operation facility was in constant contact with Mayor Nagin and FEMA. It is likely that thousands of people died because of the failure of Gov. Blanco to implement the state plan, which mentions the possible need to evacuate up to one million people. The plan clearly gives the governor the authority for declaring an emergency, sending in state resources to the disaster area and requesting necessary federal assistance.

State legislators and governors nationwide need to update their contingency plans and the operation procedures for state emergency centers. Hurricane Katrina had been forecast for days, but that will not always be the case with a disaster (think of terrorist attacks). It must be made clear that the governor and locally elected officials are in charge of the "first response."

I am not attempting to excuse some of the delays in FEMA's response. Congress and the president need to take corrective action there, also. However, if citizens expect FEMA to be a first responder to terrorist attacks or other local emergencies (earthquakes, forest fires, volcanoes), they will be disappointed. The federal government's role is to offer aid upon request.

The Louisiana Legislature should conduct an immediate investigation into the failures of state and local officials to implement the written emergency plans. The tragedy is not over, and real leadership in the state and local government are essential in the months to come. More importantly, the hurricane season is still upon us, and local and state officials must stay focused on the jobs for which they were elected--and not on the deadly game of passing the emergency buck.

Mr. Williams is president of the Evergreen Freedom Foundation, a free market public policy research organization in Olympia, Wash.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2005, 01:58:34 PM by Ripsnort »

Offline Edbert

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« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2005, 01:53:56 PM »
I'm suprised to see such a reasoned article from the Times, but here it is:
Quote
John Tierney: The Magic Marker method
By John Tierney The New York Times

WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 7, 2005
WASHINGTON It was the climax of President George W. Bush's video introduction at the Republican convention: the moment at Yankee Stadium during the 2001 World Series when he threw a pitch all the way to home plate. The video ended, and the conventioneers cheered as Bush strode onto a stage shaped like a pitcher's mound.

Well, live by the pitch, die by the pitch. When you campaign as the man on the mound, the great leader whose arm rescues Americans in their moment of need, they expect you to deal with a hurricane, too.

Bush made a lot of mistakes last week, but most of his critics are making a bigger one now by obsessing about what he said and did. We can learn more by listening to men like Jim Judkins, particularly when he explains the Magic Marker method of disaster preparedness.

Judkins is one of the officials in charge of evacuating the Hampton Roads region around Newport News, Virginia. These coastal communities, unlike New Orleans, are not below sea level, but they're much better prepared for a hurricane. Officials have plans to run school buses and borrow other buses to evacuate those without cars, and they keep registries of the people who need special help.

Instead of relying on a "Good Samaritan" policy - the fantasy in New Orleans that everyone would take care of the neighbors - the Virginia rescue workers go door to door. If people resist the plea to leave, Judkins told The Daily Press in Newport News, rescue workers give them Magic Markers and ask them to write their Social Security numbers on their body parts so they can be identified. "It's cold, but it's effective," Judkins explained.

That simple strategy could have persuaded hundreds of people to save their own lives in New Orleans. What the city needed most was coldly effective local leaders, not a president in Washington who could feel their pain. It's the same lesson America should have learned from Sept. 11 and other disasters, yet both liberals and conservatives keep ignoring it.

The liberals bewailing the insensitivity and racism of Republicans in Washington sound like a bad rerun of the 1960s, when urban riots were blamed on everyone but the rioters and the police. Yes, the White House did a terrible job of responding to Katrina, but Democratic leaders in New Orleans and Louisiana didn't even fulfill their basic duties.

In coastal Virginia - which, by the way, has a large black population and plenty of Republican politicians - Judkins and his colleagues assume that it's their job to evacuate people, maintain order and stockpile supplies to last for 72 hours, until federal help arrives. In New Orleans, the mayor seemed to assume all that was beyond his control, just like the mayors in the 1960s who let the riots occur.

They said their cities couldn't survive without help from Washington, which proceeded to shower inner cities with money and programs that did more damage than the riots. Cities didn't recover until some mayors, especially Republicans like New York's Rudy Giuliani, tried self-reliance.

Giuliani was called heartless and racist for cutting the welfare rolls and focusing on crime reduction, but black neighborhoods were the greatest beneficiaries of his policies. He was criticized for ignoring social services as he concentrated on reorganizing the Police and Fire Departments, but his cold effectiveness paid off and made New York a more livable place and kept it calm after the Sept. 11 attacks.

Yet Bush, with approval from conservatives who should have known better, reacted to Sept. 11 by centralizing disaster planning in Washington. He created the byzantine Homeland Security Department, with predictable results last week.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency, often criticized for ineptitude, became even less efficient after it was swallowed by a bureaucracy consumed with terrorism. The department has spent billions on new federal airport screeners - with no discernible public benefit - while giving short shrift to natural disasters.

The federal officials who had been laboring on a one-size-fits-all strategy were unprepared for the peculiarities of New Orleans, like the high percentage of people without cars. The local officials who knew about that problem didn't do anything about it - and then were furious when Bush didn't solve it for them. Why didn't the man on the mound come through for them?

It's a fair question as they go door to door looking for bodies. But so is this: Why didn't they go door to door before the hurricane with Magic Markers?

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #50 on: September 07, 2005, 01:56:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
so because of these quotes you want to call off the releif effort to bring these people back to washington and have hearings?

EDIT:  I don't see you complaining about the local govt's work either.  Were they stellar performers in this case or are they excempt from criticism because they are democrats?


When did I say call off the relief effort? If you think sending Mr. Brown back to Washington will hamper the relief effort I have some nice waterfront property on Lake Muroc to sell you.

If you read my posts I did mention New Orleans and Louisiana. I just like to shine the spotlight where it will make the biggest cockroaches run..... politically speaking.

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #51 on: September 07, 2005, 02:07:16 PM »
thanks for the artical edbert.  Thats something I can agree with without selling my soul to the highest paying lobbyist.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #52 on: September 07, 2005, 02:20:39 PM »
so MT... are you starting to see that tax money in the hands of government is not the best way to solve problems?

lazs

Offline Charon

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« Reply #53 on: September 07, 2005, 03:20:59 PM »
I had an interesting interview in the late 1990s. I was writing an article on the use of geographical information systems (GIS) to aid in disaster relief. I came across a paper on the Internet and decided to contact the FEMA worker bee directly instead of going through the often laborious official channels.

I get the guy on the phone, and he spends the next 15 minutes telling me how I should write an expose on the agency. The political hack that is invariably injected to head the organization every 4 to 8 years or so to pad a resume or future eulogy typically wants to do something “important,” so they create special programs with big sounding names and a forest full of paper that they try to push though during their tenure, usually at the cost of real work, time and money. This guy was a good man, dedicate to his mission but totally fed up and frustrated. I had to eventually explain that I couldn’t really write that expose. But, it helped clarify my opinion on Washington agencies, and is one example of how the whole system works.

The recent results from Katrina are not surprising federally, nor are they surprising at the state or local level either -- different bureaucracy but more of the same. It is not a partisan issue, but another example of how our current political process is regularly failing the American people. The main problem, is that it is so easy to distract the people. Both parties do it. As long as you think in terms of “Conservative” or “Liberal” “Republican” or “Democrat” they accomplish their goals and we lose. As long as you are busy hating the other guy, you fail to notice how badly your “good buddies” are doing their fair share to screw you, or how much they care about themselves and how little they care about your specific needs. IMO the white middle class is as poorly served by the Republicans as the poor and minorities are by the Democrats. Step back, throw partisanship aside, and start looking at mechanism as a whole. Here’s a hint - politics IS us vs. them, but it has nothing to do with Democrats and Republicans :)

Soapbox rant off.

Charon
« Last Edit: September 07, 2005, 03:29:44 PM by Charon »

Offline Westy

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« Reply #54 on: September 07, 2005, 03:31:57 PM »
Nice post Charon.

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #55 on: September 07, 2005, 04:05:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Charon
Here’s a hint - politics IS us vs. them, but it has nothing to do with Democrats and Republicans :)

Soapbox rant off.

Charon


Good sentence. Whats with the cryptic ’? Did you steal this off a website?

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #56 on: September 07, 2005, 04:08:02 PM »
charon... I agree completely except... I would add that both are moving toward more socialism and more power.... it is just that while the republicans are strolling towards it... the democrats are at a flat out sprint towards it.

The only thing your tax dollars buy is more power for those in power.   If they ever do anything to help anyone it is entirely with making their power base stronger in mind.

I believe that the few idealistic politicians who make it to power are soon discouraged and step into line with the beuorocrats and socialists.

lazs

Offline Charon

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« Reply #57 on: September 07, 2005, 04:47:55 PM »
Quote
I would add that both are moving toward more socialism and more power.... it is just that while the republicans are strolling towards it... the democrats are at a flat out sprint towards it.


I agree.

Charon

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2005, 04:55:58 PM »
Charon, I shake my fist at thee! From hell's door I spit at thee!

How dare you be so level headed at a time when what is clearly called for is more rhetoric and soundbites!

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #59 on: September 07, 2005, 05:44:47 PM »
Well based on your first post and your little rant about quotes it looks like you completly excuse the state and city.  Then there's this little gem:
Quote

From What? Isn't one of the main reasons for a Federal government to provide a means to protect the people? Shouldn't we expect at least competent response from our Federal govt. in times of crisis? Is the Department of Homeland Security just there to respond to terrorist attacks?

We were promised in the aftermath of 9-11 that our Govt' would improve the command and control, communications and disaster response mechanisms so that the "common defense" would be provided for in a fashion that was better than before. It didn't happen.

The investigation needs to start NOW, while the horror is still fresh and the bodies are still being collected.


an investigation while during the current effort would hamper that effort no ifs ands or buts about it.  you'd be pulling rescuers off the line that have been working without sleep for days on end.  It wouldn't be the directers but the staff as well.  Is this really what you want or are you back pedling from this position as well.