Anyone heard this? My local news

[newguy2]

Norway, Germany, France, and Italy are not going to help in military actions?

[Tac]

does that surprise you?

[newguy2]

Well to be truthful, your question is not what I asked.
 
 If someone held a gun to my head and my choice was to answer your question or die. Hmmm, that seems to be a loaded question.

[john9001]

norway has a army ? (opps, sorry answered with a question) but no , i have not heard that, i did hear cuba has offered medical help to USA,don't laugh ,cuba has very good med schools

[funkedup]

``I wanted to tell President Bush, who is my friend, that we stand in total solidarity ... it is a solidarity of the heart and I also wanted to say we are completely determined to fight by your side this absolute evil which is terrorism,''

Jacques Chirac, President of France

It's not very specific, but how can it be?  You can't expect nations to agree to military action before a plan (or even an enemy) has been identified.  Also it's probable that any military actions will be covert in nature and as such you will not hear about them until after they happen.

[newguy2]

This could be a good time to try and mend that fence. It's going to happen at some point.

Here's a link for the other. http://www.stratfor.com/home/0109181830.htm

[newguy2]

[ 09-19-2001: Message edited by: newguy2 ]

[funkedup]

Geez that was a pretty good article.  

[newguy2]

I agree, it is. Come to think of it. How much of the reports coming out of Washington are just disinformation? Heard on the news that the Afghan army is massing at the Kiber(sp)pass with Pakistan. What's the point of that? Pakistan, if I heard right, isn't going to allow US ground forces on it's soil.
Do they have a problem with Pakistan that hasn't been reported? Also sound's like the Irans wouldn't feel to bad if the Taliban gov turned up MIA.

[ 09-19-2001: Message edited by: newguy2 ]

[Hangtime]

Yah.. great article, nice sum-up on the way the chips are falling.

It's no surprise Germany and France are unwilling to back any large scale military play that may involve 'civilian causalties'.. i.e bombing or direct miltary action in Iraq, our most likely 'big show' military target.

Of course, the professed French and German sensibilities regarding helpless civilians would have nothing to do with the fact they happen to be big-time trading partners with Iraq particulary in stuff like nuclear technology and chemical handling and production equipment.

rat bastards! Maybe a Blockade is in order.

END ALL TRADE WITH ROUGE NATIONS! Thats something WE can do right fediddlein now!

There's a fediddlein war on. End ALL foreign trade with Iraq.

[straffo]

Originally posted by Hangtime:
Yah.. great article, nice sum-up on the way the chips are falling.

It's no surprise Germany and France are unwilling to back any large scale military play that may involve 'civilian causalties'.. i.e bombing or direct miltary action in Iraq, our most likely 'big show' military target.

Of course, the professed French and German sensibilities regarding helpless civilians would have nothing to do with the fact they happen to be big-time trading partners with Iraq particulary in stuff like nuclear technology and chemical handling and production equipment.

rat bastards! Maybe a Blockade is in order.

END ALL TRADE WITH ROUGE NATIONS! Thats something WE can do right fediddlein now!

There's a fediddlein war on. End ALL foreign trade with Iraq.

There is a real nice tool you should try to use Hang : a mirror.
I've a nice article for you :
 

Think BEFORE you speak

What you say is funny when your own views are completely blinded to what are correct words from another. Go read history, find out what your infamous USA has actually been doing around the world before spouting off blind rhetoric.

Before I go on, I will say this. Yes it is a great tragedy that this happen,
yes the people that did this should be punished to the extreme.

BUT the right people and the people who did this, do not accuse a religious group because a tiny group of people did such a cowardly act.

Your great president has so far during his short term has, destroyed the
Kyoto and Nuclear non-proliferation treatise. Not bad for a start. The
actions he takes now may lead your country into territory it may not want to be in, or he may lead you to a great victory against terrorism, I fervently hope it's the latter. But your leader's track record isn't the best so far.

You wonder in amazement at why it happened to your country. For a very long time some of your senior policy advisors have been warning about what they term "blowback" from the USA delving into other countries internal policies.

Afghanistan was interesting to start with. When the first signs of rebellion started to happen the then ruling government asked a lot of countries for help, USA at that point turned down the ruling governments request, when they turned to ask Russia (then USSR) for help. When Russia sent troops in, the USA suddenly saw this as a threat and sponsored the rebel groups with weapons and funding. Creating terrorist camp to fight against the then USSR, the operatives ignored the then anti USA feelings of the people it was dealing with. So when they finally toppled the government they turned their attention to other parts of the world.

133 nations including virtually all U.S. allies have signed a treaty banning landmines, while the U.S. insists on continued production.

That the U.S. is one of only two countries to defy an International Court
ruling (over Nicaragua 1986) the other one is Iran.

From 1945 to the end of the century, the United States attempted to
overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populist-nationalist movements struggling against intolerable regimes. In the process, the US caused the end of life for several million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair.

During the Gulf war the UN ordered that no working Nuclear reactors where to be targeted or attacked in any form, General Colin Powell order the two working reactors attacked and said after the attacks where carried out, "The two operating reactors they had are both gone, they're down, they're finished.".

A great quote from your president's father "I will never apologize for the
United States of America. I don't care what the facts are". George Bush.

Take the Sudan, of another example. The El-Shifa pharmaceutical plant had raised Sudanese medicinal self-sufficiency from less than five percent to more than 50percent, while producing about 90 percent of the drugs used to treat the most deadly illnesses in this desperately poor country. But on August 20, 1998, the United States saw fit to send more than a dozen Tomahawk cruise missiles screaming into the plant, in an instant depriving the people of Sudan of their achievement. Based on a covertly acquired soil sample, Washington claimed that the plant was producing chemical weapons. At the same time the US gave the world the clear impression that the factory's owner, Saleh Idris, was a close associate of terrorists and was involved in money laundering. Washington proceeded to freeze $24million in Idris's
London bank accounts. But the US was never able to prove any of its
assertions, while every piece of evidence and every expert testimony that surfaced categorically contradicted the claim about chemical weapons. The case fell apart completely, and in the meantime, Idris sued to recover his monies well as compensation for his pulverized plant. Finally, in May 1999, the United States unfroze Idris's accounts rather than contest his suit because they knew they had no case. But as of the end of that year, the US had yet to apologize to Sudan or to Idris for the plant's destruction, or for the serious harm done to his reputation, and had yet to compensate him for the loss of the plant, and the loss of business; nor the plant's employees for the loss of their jobs and income, or the ten people who were injured. The degree of Washington's arrogance in the whole matter was stunning, from the initial act on. "Never before," observed former CIA official Milt Bearden, "has a single soil sample prompted an act of war against a sovereign state."

Clinton's visit to Greece in November 1999 brought out large and fiery
anti-American demonstrations, protesting the recent American bombing of Yugoslavia and the indispensable US support for the torturers par excellence of the 1967-74 Greek junta. During his one-day stop, the president found time to address a private group. To quote "When the junta took over in 1967 here, the United States allowed its interests in prosecuting the Cold War to prevail over its interest, I should say its obligation to support democracy, which was, after all, the cause for which we fought the Cold War. It is important that we acknowledge that."

In 1987 New Zealand declared itself a Nuclear free country. USA broke its ANZUS treaty agreements and sanctioned all New Zealand goods, which where exported to the US and tried to get other countries like the UK and Australia to do the same. Until New Zealand would again, allow USA Nuclear armed and powered ships, into New Zealand Harbors and waters. New Zealand has been a model Nuclear free country which lead to the French Government committing a terrorist attack on the then Greenpeace Flagship Rainbow Warrior, while it was birthed in New Zealand waters. When New Zealand asked for assistance in capturing the other terrorist that escaped, USA did not want to help due to the way it might effect its relations, with France. Now with their present cry of vengeance does it not seem a bit hypocritical?

American domestic and foreign policy is now, and has always been, dictated fundamentally by economics, not by moral and political values.

I would recommend you read a few books, these are a very good factual unbiased account of what USA has done.

"Blowback"
By Christopher Simpson
Published by Weidenfeld & Nicholson, 1988

"Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire"
By Chalmers Johnson
Published by New York: Metropolitan Books, 2000.

From what I have posted here you are probably thinking that I hate the USA, which I do not. I am a firm believer that you should understand the situation before taking action. But it seems that it is a bit hopeful for USA to do that.

[Naso]

Originally posted by newguy2:
Norway, Germany, France, and Italy are not going to help in military actions?

I dont have any news about this.

For what I see in TV news and newspapers, all the member of government, big part of opposition, and almost all the population is on the side of USA.

We already host fighters, soldiers and ships in our territory, the Mediterranean-MiddleEast Nato and USA High Command in 5 km from my house.

We are talking about the use of our small and funny Army, but most probably our underarmed Air Force.

And I have to listen someone like you telling me we are not gonna help?

Very good way to make friends indeed.

[Peer]

Germany will help the USA in this actual military operation with all its possibilities.

The ruling party - the SPD (Socialists) and the strongest opposition party  - the CDU (Conservatives) are loyal to the USA.
So its not important, if the amaller ruling party the Gruene (Green Party) or the opposing PDS (Communists) refuse assictance .

The bad news is that because of the german internal politic of the last years the german army is nearly inoperational.
We have equipment, which is older than the soldiers who use it!
Many planes or vehicles have been cannibalized to keep a small number operational.

But if the USA calls for assistance of that what we have - we will be at the side of our allies.

But let me make another point also clear: This problem could not be solved by military. If BinLaden is killed, there will be soon another BinLaden. If Afghanistan is occupied we will get another Vietnam or Tschetschenia.

No - we need to solve these problem by diplomats and able politicians - and one of the important things is that we also have to stop the terrorism of Israel againt the palestinians.
Only if we fight EVERY terrorism, we will have a chance to stop this madness.
If we allow Israel to continue its terrorism - we will gain nothing.

[JV44]

Hello!

This morning Cancelor Schroeder sayed:

Germany also will take a military risc if the US request it.

So, a clear statement, not?  

Andreas (JV44)

[Eagler]

I think if we get permission to use our bases to launch the attacks and the permission to use their airspace to get to and fro, that's about all we can expect..anything else will be gravy.