raider179 was right...

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by lazs2
that is fine and I think that you are doing the right thing in wearing them but.... I would never presume to force you to.  

any risky behavior including motorcycles or swimming or hiking or boating or even taking a shower without a saftey harness can be considered to be darwin at work...

perhaps some day the race will consist of nothing but non risk takers but... Just as I don't think we should depend on the government to defend us and to never tyranize us....I don't believe we should outlaw risk taking.

lazs

I think you are missing the point, it isn't about not being a danger to anyone but yourself. Let's say you are driving along and lose control of your car. You are thrown from your vehicle and your body parts are all over, something out of a horror movie. Who comes to clean it up? You? Your family?

No, someone else, someone who has to deal with it. So as far as seat belts go, I do not see how a mandating wearing them is infringing on your rights. First of all, driving is not a right, it is a privilege. Second, where not wearing a seat belt can cause mental trauma to others, I do not see why a law mandating wearing them is bad or infringes on your freedoms or rights.

[x0847Marine]

Originally posted by lazs2
I feel about the same about cops... they got a job to do and for the most part they are just like me...  that is the problem...they are cowards like me too.... they enforce laws that they find unconstitutional and busy body because we have taken the right for them to decide away... they are running scared just like the rest of us.

We all fear the government... when did that happen?  Isn't the government supossed to fear us?

lazs

Cops are cowards, but not like you, they follow these laws to keep food on the table and thier wife and kids with a roof.... because getting fired and or sued is a daily concern.

I'm a strong advocate of the right to bear arms.. and since I'm the cop (retired now), it's my call on what to do.. officers usually never have to take away legally registered / transported firearm, but they can and will.

If I DONT take your firearm after a domestic disturbance call and someone gets hurt, I get sued and fired knowing at the very least, I stood up for the right to bear arms.

I worked a 1 man car on grave yards in East LA, every A hole had a gun, decent folks knew this and carried thier own.
I let quite a few decent folks drive off with thier weapons intact.
I personally couldnt take a mans weapon in a war zone leaving him and his family defenseless. Even as a 22 year old snot I made those judgement calls and got very lucky none of them murderd someone an hour later becase I'd get sued for sure, maybe even fired as the city looked to cut thier losses.

Other cops I know would take this guys gun in a second to avoid the chance of getting sued/fired.

Cops will risk thier lives for you, but not thier carrers.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Sixpence
I think you are missing the point, it isn't about not being a danger to anyone but yourself. Let's say you are driving along and lose control of your car. You are thrown from your vehicle and your body parts are all over, something out of a horror movie. Who comes to clean it up? You? Your family?

No, someone else, someone who has to deal with it. So as far as seat belts go, I do not see how a mandating wearing them is infringing on your rights. First of all, driving is not a right, it is a privilege. Second, where not wearing a seat belt can cause mental trauma to others, I do not see why a law mandating wearing them is bad or infringes on your freedoms or rights.

On that basis, lets outlaw skydiving, mountain climbing, scuba diving & snorkeling, and any other life-challenging pursits that 'others' have to clean up after.

Cripes, what a wuzzified argument..

Life for some people involves challenging death.

Pussify your world, install seatbelts on your couch, sell yer damn car, bar your door and mail order yer groceries.. and stay the hell outta my world, cause that sure as hell ain't living life on terms I can accept.

[lazs2]

again... hang nails it.... rescue workers and police fire etc... their job is to clean up...  dead people are a drag to take care of and sometimes they are messy.... motorcyle wrecks and skydiving accidents and people drowning can be EXTREMELY unpleasant to view and clean up after...

should all those people be disallowed their sports or transportation because of that?   Of course not.   I can't believe that sixpense even seriously brought that up but then I rarely understand what he is thinking or what he uses for reasoning.

marine.... I believe that we are saying the same thing... livelyhood and freedom issues make cowards of us all...  most cops I know will do what they can to act according to their morals and concience but.... as you say... their livelyhood and often, very freedom depend on them sometimes inforcing unconstitutional laws that they don't agree with... not just gun laws either..

lazs

[MrRiplEy[H]]

I reserve the right to chose and I hugely resent the attitude of folks that figure that they have any right to make decisons of any kind 'for my own good'.

That's probably what every looter in NO were thinking while committing the act. To hell with laws. To hell with other persons property.. Only thing that matters is what I want.

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by Hangtime
On that basis, lets outlaw skydiving, mountain climbing, scuba diving & snorkeling, and any other life-challenging pursits that 'others' have to clean up after.

Cripes, what a wuzzified argument..

Life for some people involves challenging death.

Pussify your world, install seatbelts on your couch, sell yer damn car, bar your door and mail order yer groceries.. and stay the hell outta my world, cause that sure as hell ain't living life on terms I can accept.

Nice apples to oranges comparison, I didn't realize people need to skydive to work everyday or people can skydive in front of my house.

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by lazs2
again... hang nails it.... rescue workers and police fire etc... their job is to clean up...  dead people are a drag to take care of and sometimes they are messy.... motorcyle wrecks and skydiving accidents and people drowning can be EXTREMELY unpleasant to view and clean up after...

Again, the old apple to oranges, you compare skydiving to driving. People do not have to skydive to work everyday, nor can they do it in front of my house. Not only do the workers have to clean up the mess(which you state is their job and they should have to deal with it? waaa?) You have the poor woman who hears the crash and comes out of her house and finds a poor lad laying in the middle of the street with his head cracked open like an egg. But if she can't handle it she's a wuss!? lol!

Sure, you can sky dive, but you skydive from the empire state building, guess what? You get fined!

People are such wusses cause they don't want body parts in their streets? Wow

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Sixpence
Nice apples to oranges comparison, I didn't realize people need to skydive to work everyday or people can skydive in front of my house.

Automobiles were around for 50 years before somebody put a seatbelt in em, 25 years more before some liberal twit decided to mandate their use by infringing on my right to make my own damn decison regarding their use.

Now, it's illegal to use a cell phone, but not illegal to eat a burger or put on lipstick while driving.

Assinine nanny laws just piss me off. If I don't want to wear a seat belt or a helmet, what freakin right does the state have to mandate their use? For what? My own protection? Horsecrap. To bolster the states grip on the public's pocket via the 32 million a year they collect in fines and satisfy the big fat cat insurance company lobby.

It's a bull **** law, propped up by liberal PC weenies that delight in deciding for other people what they should or shouldn't do.

If I die popping my head on the concrete, that's just too damn bad. I paid my money, took my chance and tossed snake eyes. Darwin wins. In no situation is it any of yer damn business what color leathers I wore, what state agency approved the helmet or who put the inspection sticker on the bike.

You wanna legislate my choice in hugahunk next?

Government should be buzy improving road signage, road conditions, putting cops on the borders and getting illegal immigrants the hell outta my country.. not pissing away manpower, courts and my damn tax dollars entertaining idiot nanny state helmet and seatbelt laws.

[Lazerus]

Originally posted by Sixpence
Again, the old apple to oranges, you compare skydiving to driving. People do not have to skydive to work everyday,

Nor do they have to drive to work everyday. They have a choice in their mode of transportation.

Not only do the workers have to clean up the mess(which you state is their job and they should have to deal with it? waaa?)

It is the job they have chosen. They either have to deal with it or choose another job.

You have the poor woman who hears the crash and comes out of her house and finds a poor lad laying in the middle of the street with his head cracked open like an egg.

She chose to go look at the scene. Nice try at invoking sympathy for the elderly too.

I chose to go out of my house and look at a motorcycle wreck one night. The first thing I saw, and the farthest from the accident, was the poor guys helmet. Good thing he had it on. Thirty yards away was a pile of brain on the pavement.

Sure, you can sky dive, but you skydive from the empire state building, guess what? You get fined!

Driving in the Empire State Building will get ya a hefty fine too. Take yer bag of mixed fruit and try to sell it somewhere else.

The only real argument for statutory compulsion for seatbelt usage is the theory that it holds a driver in their seat, enabling them to control the automobile better, possibly reducing the likelyhood of a collision with another. This is offset by a lack of data and the possibility of causing entrapment in the case of a single vehicle accident. I can't wait for someone to sue the state for compelling them to wear a seatbelt that trapped them in a car, resulting in 3rd degree burns or something of that nature.


I always wear mine by the way. Have since about 2 years after I started driving, which was 16 years ago.

[lasersailor184]

the rest of us that value individuality and freedom... well... we are just.... not to brave.

Pansy.  


You guys think Jail Time is bad?

Or how about a paltry fine?



Revolutionary thinkers way back 230 years ago accepted the possible consequences of death by hanging and quartering to kick the bellybutton of those overstepping their bounds.


Me?

No one has overstepped me yet.  They will reap the day in which they do.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by lasersailor184

No one has overstepped me yet.  They will reap the day in which they do.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by Lazerus

Nor do they have to drive to work everyday. They have a choice in their mode of transportation.

But they can't choose which road the business is on



It is the job they have chosen. They either have to deal with it or choose another job.

So if you make the job unbearable and no one chooses to do it, who does it? And that being said, why make the job worse?

She chose to go look at the scene. Nice try at invoking sympathy for the elderly too.

Not quite, she chose to live on that street. Yeah, maybe you are right, she should turn her head the other way and not help.

I chose to go out of my house and look at a motorcycle wreck one night. The first thing I saw, and the farthest from the accident, was the poor guys helmet. Good thing he had it on. Thirty yards away was a pile of brain on the pavement.

So, you are on record that safety devices do not make a difference? Oh wait, I see further down you wear yours all the time, weird.

Driving in the Empire State Building will get ya a hefty fine too.

Right

The only real argument for statutory compulsion for seatbelt usage is the theory that it holds a driver in their seat, enabling them to control the automobile better, possibly reducing the likelyhood of a collision with another. This is offset by a lack of data and the possibility of causing entrapment in the case of a single vehicle accident. I can't wait for someone to sue the state for compelling them to wear a seatbelt that trapped them in a car, resulting in 3rd degree burns or something of that nature.

Or for an emt to sue a victim who was thrown from the car cause the emt was looking off the road for said victim and snapped his leg falling in a hole

EMT: Sir, just relax, we are going to get you out

Victim: my...my wife and daughter, are they ok?

EMT: Officer! We have two more that were in the car, they must have been thrown, can you search the sides of the road?

I always wear mine by the way. Have since about 2 years after I started driving, which was 16 years ago.

Huh, go figure

Driving is a privilege, and they only thing they ask is to wear your seat belt and this tramples your rights and freedoms? And i'm a liberal? Seems you use this term quite liberally, I guess that makes you a liberal too, eh?

[beet1e]

I'm with Sixpence all the way in this debate.

I always wore a setbelt ever since they started putting them in cars, and long before it became mandatory in 1983. Why? Because it makes perfect sense. That's why. I don't see it as an "infringement of liberty". If you use a passenger air service, do you argue with the FA when asked to buckle up? Hmmm, some do.

I always remember the lame arguments folks here came up with just ahead of the seatbelt law - stuff like "a seatbelt will wear my clothes out".

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by beet1e
I'm with Sixpence all the way in this debate.

lol, i'm doomed!

What they see it as is something that their decision effects only them, and it doesn't, it effects the whole community. That being the case, the community should have a say in the matter.

They are also taking the liberal side of the debate. Some years ago here in Ma., the first attempt at a seat belt law sent the liberal core up in arms. The bill was defeated, and the libs staged a party, but no one really showed up or celebrated. The bill was attempted again and passed, it would be a turning point to a more conservative Ma, even electing a republican gov which years ago would be unheard of.

[ET]

Before cars, riding a horse was a privilege. Registration,
license plates, riding licenses. Hooking the plate to the tail.
And oh, the air pollution.