Author Topic: raider179 was right...  (Read 9512 times)

Offline Nash

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raider179 was right...
« Reply #270 on: September 24, 2005, 04:08:33 AM »
Thanks Hang.

Ya know, I'm always open ears for advice, and will consider taking my "bogus nitwit ass-hat 'cost- benefit analysis'" and packing it "where the sun don't shine."

That's just gold, and if I make a buck off of that I'm gonna treat you right.

Spare me.

'Cuz you know what? Really...

Your guy's patriotic BS has grown REAL tired. Because it doesn't amount to SQUAT.

You talk a good game.... but the problem is that you've been repeating the same crap for a few years now and its effect is wearing off. Seriously, dude.

Ya start to build a little tolerance to it, and all of a sudden you're thinking "Wait a minute - this patriotic word-play isn't moving me like it used to." I mean... it's like building up a tolerance to booze. It just takes more, but there's nothing more here.... It's the same old crap.

So ya know? Spare me your "nanny" whines. I can hear the headlines now: "Babies lose the right to be Babies." Look at you, all capitalizing "MY OWN".... me me me me me blah blah.

I'm sorry Hang. And remove pacifier. I can hear "I want I want I want" but the rest is just garbled.

Offline Hangtime

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raider179 was right...
« Reply #271 on: September 24, 2005, 05:33:08 AM »
Whats your point of existence? You wanna silence me because my view is 'tired'? That's yer point?

Yer attitude adjustment medication provided by YOUR 'nanny state' just ain't workin any more is it?
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #272 on: September 24, 2005, 05:37:21 AM »
Lazs,

It seems like the people in this thread fit into three categories. Those who use seatbelts but who are opposed to a seatbelt LAW probably form the biggest group.  And then there are people like you that are opposed to both, and people like me who are opposed to neither.

The only reason I am in favour of the law as it stands in Britain (as well as 49/50 states - LOL) is because it saves lives. If people want to top themselves, surely it's not too much to ask for them to wait to get home to do it, instead of burdening our hospitals.

There's all sorts of NRA-style rhetoric around which tries to discredit seatbelts, but I prefer to stick to the FACTS. And the FACT is that in Britain, the tally of road traffic accident fatalities to front seat occupants of cars was cut by 40% when the 1983 law came into effect - from ~5000 to ~3000. Until it became law, most people just didn't seem interested, and did not wear them. That is NOT the same thing as saying they were opposed to seatbelt use and/or the law enforcing their use.

As to actually having a LAW - you have to understand that government is between a rock and a hard place. If a seatbelt law is passed, they're accused of nannying. But if they do nothing to tackle the problem of RTA deaths and injuries, they're accused of complacency -  to the accompaniment of a chorus of "why doesn't the government do something"? You only have to look at post Katrina New Orleans to see the effect on a government's popularity when people are dying deaths that could perhaps have been avoided had the appropriate action been taken when it was needed.

Many people whose lives have been or will be saved by a seatbelt are nowhere as vociferous in their disdain for the seatbelt law as guys like you, Toad, HangTime and Jackal. I'm talking about people who couldn't give a fork either way, but chose to use seatbelts once it became law.

If I were opposed to the existence of the law AND to the use of seatbelts, as clearly you are, then I would do exactly what you do, which is to ride around without one, and just pay the fine in the unlikely event of being caught...

...and as I said earlier, that's exactly my stance with regard to our national speed limit of 70mph on motorways and dual carriageways. I'll drive at the speed I think is safe and appropriate, rather than have that decision made for me by a Whitehall bureaucrat. In some cases, that speed is actually below the posted speed limit.

But Nash is right, and the continued chest-thumping defiance is even more stupid than the chest-thumpers' perception of the law.

Your seatbelts laws are there to stay, and New Hampshire will complete the pattern of uniformity soon enough.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2005, 05:40:08 AM by beet1e »

Offline Nash

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raider179 was right...
« Reply #273 on: September 24, 2005, 05:43:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
Whats your point of existence? You wanna silence me because my view is 'tired'? That's yer point?

Yer attitude adjustment medication provided by YOUR 'nanny state' just ain't workin any more is it?


What is my point of existence? That's kind of a nut-ball question...

But because I ask nut-ball questions all the time, I'll play: Uhm... I have no idea. I suppose it it began at conception but that would mean picturing my dad doing my mom so I really wanna change the subject if that's cool with you.

Oh, did you mean "point of" as in reason for?

You claim to be a spiritual man, Hang - you figure it out.

I don't aim to silence anyone, Hang. If you say what I think are stupid words, then I'm going to say they are stupid words. That doesn't neccessarily make them stupid, and it certainly does not mean that you should be silenced.

Ridiculed? Perhaps... But we'll deal with that on a case by case basis.

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #274 on: September 24, 2005, 05:56:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Oh, did you mean "point of" as in reason for?
:rofl

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #275 on: September 24, 2005, 06:08:34 AM »
Nash, you've tossed in the towel. You seem to toss in the towel quite a bit... you walked; checked outta the US, moved to Canada. Now, you sit up there on yer perch and pass judgement on those that stayed.

The reason my diatribe has gotten 'old' to your surrender monkey ears is because it's remained consistent. My values have remained the same.

Yours seem to change with the weather, the wind, and the status of your medication. This may be in error.. but considering your lack of focus and tendancy to cave when the load gets heavy, I'm dubious as to your credentials in passing judgement on anything regarding the rights of free men.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #276 on: September 24, 2005, 08:00:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Your stuff is becoming alarmingly less worthy of a detailed response.  


Translation: The Ritalin and Xanax are finaly kicking in. :)
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Jackal1

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raider179 was right...
« Reply #277 on: September 24, 2005, 08:05:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e

But Nash is right


:rofl

Nuff said.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline lazs2

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raider179 was right...
« Reply #278 on: September 24, 2005, 08:52:20 AM »
nash... he got ya...  You know that we are right because deep down... you can't justify true democracy if it means 4 wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner... deep down I think you know that we have inalienable rights and that they are common sense... we don't have the right to tell you what music you can buy no matter how many people vote to get rid of it because we think it causes youth problems and the expense that may incur..

In fact... you know that expense is not a factor in freedom... just as a motorcycle causes bazillions of dollars a year in needless expense for all of us or swimming... you don't think those things are right to ban no matter how good an arguement the nannies make for us all being better off.

Hang hoisted you on your own petard... you never seem to have any core values and when you do... they can be twisted if they are inconvienent...  I say that you really believe that wearing seatbelts should be a personal decision but you are willing to go all tyrannical on making others wear em so long as you don't mind doing it and.... most important... you think you save a buck..

You won't answer hang on the question of if you think peoples freedom depend on the economy or not..  because it is impossible for you to answer without opening up the fact that your answer depends on what works for you....  you don't mind a tyrant so long as it doesn't affect you too much and... it saves you a buck.

guess what... you screw yourself for nothing.... you give them more power and you don't save a nickle.... you don't get that extra vacation you thought you would by making me wear a seatbelt... No rates for anything go down.... nope...

What you get for the bazillions saved is more government and more police to enforce your new laws.   Oh... and a precedent... A precident for more control over the people by the government...  

lazs

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #279 on: September 24, 2005, 09:00:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
  Oh... and a precedent... A precident for more control over the people by the government...  

lazs


There it is!
Laid out in black and white in it`s simpliest form.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline lazs2

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raider179 was right...
« Reply #280 on: September 24, 2005, 09:03:59 AM »
and beet... I do wear seatbelts most of the time.   I just don't want it to be a law that I do.  Helmets... I probly would rarely if ever wear one.

You keep arguing that it is a good idea to wear em... no one is desputing that.   I believe that they save lives and injuries.  

The point is... Is it the governments business to save my life or prevent me from being injured even if I know the risks and decide to take my chances?  

We have established that suposssedly we saved a bazillion dollars with the new laws... That is your whole point for the passing and justification for them tho right?  

So where did the money go?  we have established that no rates for insurance or health have gone down..  Probly up... the more people live our medicine will work on the things that happen to them naturally down the road... the rate of profits for insurance companies and health care has risen or stayed the same... no one beniofieted financialy from these laws... cept maybe the government got some more power..

But.... let's say a law could be established that on the face of it...  would save the majority some money at the expense of freedom for all.... some would of course lose no tangible freedom because they were not affected and others would lose a great deal because it was important to them...

Would it be better to make the law resticting everyones freedom or would it be better to make those who wished to have freedom pay for any extra expense their freedom incured?

I am willing to tell my insurance company that I don't wear a helmet and that I might not allways wear a seatbelt and willing to pay any extra premiums they feel are fair.... if they are too much... another insurance company will cut their price I am sure.

You who claim to wear one 100% of the time could have a claim nullified if you were found to not be wearing one in an accident.

lazs

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #281 on: September 24, 2005, 09:12:50 AM »
and nash.... toad may be taking a patriotic tract here but... it is essentialy the right way to look at it when you are discussing freedom and law..  No way to argue that.

You on the other hand... are telling an American that he is not allowed to talk about his founders beliefs or their interpretation of the laws of the land...

Ironicaly enough.... a land that you do not have anything to do with... You are not an American.... I know others might have told you that but it keeps slipping your mind.

If I have to hear about law and the founders... I believe I will listen to someone who has a stake in em rather than some city dwelling canandian.

I know that patriotism makes you sick.  We all know that by now...  But... You aren't even an American so really.... what's your point?

And that it the gist of it that most people are starting to realize about you..... You don't really have a point... you are all over the map... you don't have a point because your values are flexible and selfish..

It isn't the person who want's personal freedom who is selfish... It is the person who would take it away from him who is selfish.

lazs

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #282 on: September 24, 2005, 09:14:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
WWII was fought for the right to not wear seat belts, even in part? I think you belittle their sacrifices by twisting it to serve such a trivial notion.


So at what level does giving up freedom become non-trivial?
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #283 on: September 24, 2005, 09:30:01 AM »
oooooh ooooh... I know! I know!

when it affects you personaly.  When it affects a freedom you want.

lazs

Offline Toad

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« Reply #284 on: September 24, 2005, 11:33:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Your stuff is becoming alarmingly less worthy of a detailed response. What is happening with you?
[/b]

What has happened is that I continue to engage in BBS debate with a person that uses denial as his bolt hole when he paints himself into a corner.


Quote
Despite how you cull (abuse) their words as justification for your recklessness, I am confident that they, if sufficiently conjured, would amass, form a semi-circle around you, and collectively puke on your feet.


Now THAT is funny.

And once again it simply shows how totally out of touch you are with the "American scene" despite your apparent conviction that you understand us better than we understand ourselves.

"Cull" their words? You are too funny. Haven't read much Jefferson, have you? Pretty much all he talks about is keeping government out of the lives of the individual citizen and making sure the central government does not grow too powerful.

The American Revolution was all about individual freedom; it was all about preventing overarching governmental intrusion into the daily lives of individuals. The Founders continually warned of the dangers of a powerful central government.

Yet you are in denial. Either you realize your position is hopeless or you know nothing of our early history.

It isn't "patriotism"; it's an awareness of the principals upon which this nation was founded. Nanny state ain't it... not by miles and miles. Nanny state would be anathema to the Founders.

I serious doubt they'd "puke on my shoes". Rather, they'd wonder how anyone could confuse their position to the extent that you have done.

Here's a challenge for you. Instead of sniping from the side and simply declaring your view is the only correct view, why don't you  post support from the writings of our Founders that your position is correct?

Show us where they support an incredibly powerful Federal government making decisions for the individual in minute matters of daily life.

Show us where they proposed "big government" as the solution.

Time to show your stuff. I call.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2005, 11:39:46 AM by Toad »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!