Author Topic: Ok, this worries me... (Read 3080 times)

easymo · « **Reply #30 on:** September 19, 2001, 11:16:00 PM »

I was unhappy about the dead or alive comment myself. A live bin laden could be a real problem. Sure as hell, somewhere, U.S. hostages will be taken. Then a demand for the release of bin laden. To hell with that. Just send us his head. You can keep the rest.

Toad · « **Reply #31 on:** September 19, 2001, 11:38:00 PM »

We'll all know a little more tomorrow nite.

We surely won't know all they know and the Prez would be a fool to spill it all anyway.

No matter what proof is provided, there will always be a faction that claims it is not enough or not conclusive.

Dowding · « **Reply #32 on:** September 20, 2001, 04:42:00 AM »

Quote

No matter what proof is provided, there will always be a faction that claims it is not enough or not conclusive.

An argument used by military regimes time and time again. It's just nonsense and a mandate for punishment without a trial. Hell, I'm sure the Taliban have used it themselves.

Eagler · « **Reply #33 on:** September 20, 2001, 06:32:00 AM »

Dowding

My English friend, you sound more and more like a defense lawyer..you thinking about changing your handle to JCochran and speakin in rythmes?

I see the all evidence I need to see every freaking day on the tv....

5422

how's that for evidence??

fry his bellybutton and any of his freakin followers!

Toad · « **Reply #34 on:** September 20, 2001, 08:36:00 AM »

Dowding, it isn't nonsense at all.

It's a simple fact that happens to be true.

There were some chowderheads that didn't think we should go to war with the Japanese after Pearl.

Some people jsut can't bear the thought of war. It is terrible. It is also sometimes necessary. I'll refer you to John Stuart Mill's quotation. He's said it better than anyone for all time.

[ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: Toad ]

Boroda · « **Reply #35 on:** September 20, 2001, 08:38:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by -ammo-:

OK FD, I personally know that Bin Laden is guilty of many acts of terrorism and should be requarded by the western world as an enemy.

Ammo, let's put it this way: you have been told he's guilty.

He already admitted that he supported Chechen and Albanian terrorists, but is it a reason for war with the whole country?

Quote

Originally posted by skernsk:
fd ski. The preseident decalred "war" on all terrorists and those who harbour them.

Does it mean US is going to start war with Russia, because of the terrorist training camps in Chechnya? Or are they going to send troops there to help Russian army?

BTW, Chechens already said that the plane attack was prepared by Russia:
http://www.kavkaz.org/english/news/2001/09/12/news4.htm

BTW, www.kavkaz.org is a very interesting reading. They finaly made a complete English wersion, so - enjoy it...

Ripsnort · « **Reply #36 on:** September 20, 2001, 09:22:00 AM »

Have you all forgot that Bin Laden has already been tried and convicted (even in his absence) of the World Trade Center in 1993? There is OVERWHELMING evidence that he was involved in that attempt to bring it down.

hblair · « **Reply #37 on:** September 20, 2001, 09:35:00 AM »

Yeah, I agree.

Why does it have to be a war?

Let's have a trial.

I mean look, middle eastern terrorists are really not that bad a people, we just need to bring "bin laden" to trial. It's probably him (please don't accuse until you have the evidence personally sitting in your lap, why won't the gov't give us this? geeez), not these poor men who carry it out. Why declare war? They sacrifice their lives for their country, for Allah too, they're really disciplined and all. What's the big deal that they tied up and slit the throats of women stewardesses to accomplish their goal of destroying people's lives?
The little 4 yr old girl whose photo I saw on CNN the other day, riding on a big jet to L.A. with her mommy & daddy, obliterated into the side of a concrete and steel structure because these men from the middle east wanted to show the world how mean America is. I mean come on guys, there's only 4,500 souls lost here, a few billions of dollars worth of damage. Let's lock the culprits up.

Those whippersnappers.

That'll show 'em.

Dowding · « **Reply #38 on:** September 20, 2001, 10:12:00 AM »

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It's a simple fact that happens to be true.

Possibly, but it is not a viable argument for not having a trial. I'm sure Bin Laden is guilty of funding attacks in the past and he has publically declared his hate for Western (and particularly US) culture.

But I find it amusing, in a deeply bitter, non-humourous way, this talk of 'war on terrorism'. Like all of a sudden, terrorism matters. Whatever. I guess finally we'll see some movement on this issue.

Eagler - you, my American friend, sound more and more like some clueless xenophobic stereotype with every comment you post.

"Let's go blow those Ragheads away, boy!!"

That is your catch-phrase.

Also, you are aware that about 400 British people died last Tuesday? That Tuesday was the worst single act of terrorism committed against British citizens, ever?

This isn't a game.

Toad · « **Reply #39 on:** September 20, 2001, 10:22:00 AM »

I think you misunderstand Dowding.

If he surrenders, or Afganistan boots him out and we pick him up.. there probably will be a trial.

OTOH, if we have to go get him, there will probably be what is generally termed a war.

In that event, no matter what evidence is presented, documented, verified... whatever.. .there will still be those who deem it insufficient to "go get him" and thus start a "war".

It isn't about being a reason for a trial or not. It's an unassailably true observation about human nature.

Eagler · « **Reply #40 on:** September 20, 2001, 10:28:00 AM »

I stopped using the slang "ragheads" many posts ago

though i will not cry a tear when the ones responsible for the death of over 6000 Americans last Tuesday get theirs. Screw the proof ( I'm not paraniod of my country and it's government that I don't trust them with it), screw a trial (that was our mistake with the first batch who bombed the WTC).. time for them to see their ALLAH.

Yes I realize how many ppl GB lost..

and yes I do realize it ain't a game .. but thanks for the reminder

Dowding · « **Reply #41 on:** September 20, 2001, 10:34:00 AM »

Eagler - you might as well keep talking the same talk, in the same terms. It really makes for worthwhile debate.

Toad - I see what you mean.

Apparently, Afghanistan have 'asked' Bin Laden to leave. I don't think anyone will buy that. So it looks like they are going in, doesn't it? If not this week, then very soon.

I wonder what the ROE is for the coalition forces once on the ground, considering:

The other 'side' deosn't wear a uniform.
The other 'side' look exactly like the civilian population.
The 'other' side's main tactic will be hit and run or suicide attack.

This is going to get very dirty, very quickly. I hope everyone is ready for it; it's going to make great copy!

I wonder if it will get the same attention one year from now...

[ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]

hblair · « **Reply #42 on:** September 20, 2001, 10:36:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dowding:
This isn't a game.

Well, Is it a war, trial, what? What would you do if you were President Bush after enduring the worst disaster ever on American soil?

hblair · « **Reply #43 on:** September 20, 2001, 10:40:00 AM »

BTW, are you British? What is the "state of faded glory" anyway?

[ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: hblair ]

Dowding · « **Reply #44 on:** September 20, 2001, 10:49:00 AM »

Good question, Hblair. I'd go with common opinion, because that would be my job. He's done an excellent job so far - his speeches have seemed heart-felt. He's not the greatest public speaker America has ever had, but I guess that's irrelevant in the circumstances.

As to what this 'is'... I don't think anyone has the slightest idea. A response is needed, clearly. But aimed at whom and to what extent? You have world leaders dashing across the face of globe trying to sort out some kind of fragile coalition, inter-weaving webs of common goals from quite different agendas.

Meanwhile, you have increased tensions between certain religious groups in every corner of the globe, but particularly around Pakistan and Afghanistan.

The ripples from that attack have been enormous in their reach. And this is only T+10 days.

[ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]