Ok, this worries me...

[fd ski]

First of all, "Wanted Dead or Alive" remark was very inappropriate, the smirk on Bush's face made me ashamed of the fact that he's our president.

But... this from http://www.stratfor.com/:

 

Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar reiterated Sept. 18 that the regime would not extradite Osama bin Laden without evidence against him, AFP said. U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the United States would not hand over evidence to the Taliban in an effort to protect U.S. intelligence, reported The Business Times. The spokesman for U.S. President George W. Bush said the president's message to the Taliban is that it's time for action, not negotiations 1535 GMT, 091901

Does anyone else find this wrong ?

Don't get me wrong, if Bin Laden is indeed responsible we should hang him by his nuts, but... what happend to "innocent until proven guilty" ?

Current path takes us quickly into loosing any support from any allies we might have following last weeks tragedy.

Bombing of afganistan without publishing some sort of proof of Bin Laden's guilt will make us villans in very short order. Our allies will abandon us, and rightfully so.

I thought that Bush's advisors were supposed to be smart, but up til now i hear nothing but agnorant gung-ho remarks...

[AKSWulfe]

Originally posted by fd ski:
[QBagnorant gung-ho remarks...[/QB]

Did you try to combine ignorant and arrogant into one word?

 
-SW

[1776]

Please point me to the evidence that condemed 5 or 6 thousand innocent citizens to death.

[Gadfly]

Well, FD, I think you can rest easy that the US will not attack without proof, if we were, we would have already done so.

As for the presidents remark, well, the fact is that we already have proof of osama's guilt in several other terrorists bombings, so he is a dead man already.

[fd ski]

Originally posted by 1776:
Please point me to the evidence that condemed 5 or 6 thousand innocent citizens to death.

Great, then why bother going all the way to Afganistan ?

Let's bomb Mexico !!!
Brazil ? canada, yeah, let's bomb canada... they are a "prime suspect". We can't prove it, but we're gonna do it anyway and we expect everyone to back us up ?

True fricking genious....

Wuflie, there is a word like that in polish, i made a "on the fly" translation. It means a combination of two, someone who is cocky, aggresive, for no good reason.

[AcId]

The fact that you don't see, have or are aware of any evidence doesn't mean that it does not exist. The Govt. and our president know a heck of a lot more than you do about any and all evidence pretaining to this matter.

That is ofcourse unless you know something we don't  

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by fd ski:


Great, then why bother going all the way to Afganistan ?

Let's bomb Mexico !!!
Brazil ? canada, yeah, let's bomb canada... they are a "prime suspect". We can't prove it, but we're gonna do it anyway and we expect everyone to back us up ?

True fricking genious....

Wuflie, there is a word like that in polish, i made a "on the fly" translation. It means a combination of two, someone who is cocky, aggresive, for no good reason.

OK FD, I personally know that Bin Laden is guilty of many acts of terrorism and should be requarded by the western world as an enemy. Now eveidence seems to point straight to him. Whether Bush'es organization upsets you or not, whether you agree with him or not, you dont think Osama Bin Laden is our enemy? You dont think he should be brought to justice? My heart says he should be held responsible, and he is just at the top of the list.

There are developements that point to that he may not have been the kingpin of this attack, developing now. Even so, he should be elinated. By now maybe the media is reporting that the Israli's know alot more about the logistics of this attack.

[Eagler]

what 1776 & Acid said..

I'm sick of hearing tolerance crap being preached, where is this freaking tolerance in the rest of the world eh?

We are so tolerant we are killing ourselves .. literally!

Here's what all of our tolerance has gotten us so far: http://www.capnhq.gov/nhq/pa/news_info/wtcmissions.html

I trust this government, this country and its military to stamp out this evil with or without the support of our wishy washy allies just like we have in the past.

[Udie]

Ski WTF do you expect? They're trying to gear the country up for war. If we were going to bomb inocents we would have already started bombing, besides that was Clinton's tactic not Bush's. Why should they give any evidence to the taliban?  They aren't going to turn him over, I'll be very suprised if they do.

 From the stuff I've read and heard on the radio it looks to me like the terrorist may actualy win.  The implosion of our nation is begining already.  
 

 I fear America is about to rip itself apart..........


U

[skernsk]

fd ski.  The preseident decalred "war" on all terrorists and those who harbour them.

Basically.....Bin laden, the Taliban and all who hve practiced some form of terrorism are considered a threat to the U.S AND its Allies.

Lets just hope they (whovever they are) follow through this time and eliminate the terrorist cells.

[Toad]

Relax.

This is week two.

Obvious item #1: No matter how much Katie Couric would like to report every little tidbit of information, every lead, every bit of proof the government has... the government isn't going to hand it out to the press until they feel the time is right.

Obvious item #2: We were caught with our shorts around our ankles. Doesn't mean we're done for; the FBI, the CIA, the DIA, NSA... all our intel agencies "have not yet begun to fight" as a great American once said. Give 'em a bit of time.

Obvious item #3: Now is a time for faith in our government, faith in your fellow American and faith in yourself. We WILL see this thing through. Stay together, stay focused... the bad guys are.

Obvious item #4: The time will eventually come to act. The required proof will be found. And then, once again, as ever in the history of mankind we'll realize that....

´´War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.´´ --John Stuart Mill

[fd ski]

Am i not making myself clear ?

If you are accused of a crime - it has to be proven. If you are sentenced without any proof of your guilt being presented - US of A and half of the civlizied world will cry foul - abuse of human rights, and rightly so.

Don't we punish a countries for abusing rights such as this one ? Cuba, china ? Do only as i say, not as i do ?

Look in the mirror gentlemen. This is a reason why in some parts of the world people have problems with us. We march in the name of freedom and democracy yet specialize in establising dictatorships. We preach human rights, yet feel free to abuse them when it suits us.

All we have to do is give some sort of proof that he was indeed connected to this crime. Without that, we're going to war with the "most likely candidate", and god help us if after we bombed Afganistan into stone age - we get a proof that it was Iraq behind this all along. How will you feel about innocent colleteral damage then ?

I'm not trying to defend the bastards. Did they do it ? I'm pretty sure they did. But before we scoop down to their level - we need to have a proof, not just an assumption.

[discod]

fd I agree with what your saying...innocent untill proven guity but consider this...

The Taliban is not your typical government or leadership.  The U.S. leaders are playing political mind games and so are the Taliban.  The bold statements and arrogance is all part of a "red herring" or decoy to keep the Taliban guessing what we are doing and to keep the American people passified that something is happening.

Don't put too much on what they say but more on what they do.  And I doubt they will share anything with the Taliban until they can present it in a way that will not help the Taliban know how we got the evedence.  If the give evidence too soon in the wrong manner then it will just help the terrorists hide even better.

Let's see what actually happens and let the politicians play their international mind games.

[Eagler]

the problem is when do you have "enough" "proof"???

You may require more proof then someone else, some may require more "proof" than will be feasible to gather in the timeline now provided..

Proof and evidence sure didn't make a difference in mr oj's trial meaning no matter how much proof or facts you turn up some ignorant bastard still will not be convinced..

[Toad]

Be patient.

Give the Intel agencies time to work. No offensive action has been taken as yet.

We're moving troops, sure. Putting them where we think they'll be needed. Well, Duh. Not much point in putting a carrier group off of Great Britain now is there?

When the time comes, the rationale and justification will be given. That will be the time to evaluate it.

Right now, this thread is just "chicken little". What if we don't have proof! What if we don't have proof!

Give them time. See what they can develop. This "instant gratification" stuff just doesn't work for war...

but you know that, right?