Author Topic: Rita and gas prices (Read 1230 times)

DoctorYO · « **Reply #45 on:** September 23, 2005, 10:32:09 AM »

I think you fellas are missing the point..

About ten years ago the major companies went on a mission of gobbling up all the mom and pop refineries (private owned refineries were struggling with the new enviro laws and were ripe for takeover) on a huge market consolidation.. using this ENRON model of gobbling up capacity then gutting the refinery capacity to form a another road to artificially gouge the consumer..(it was like 28 bucks per barrel and opec was happy..us oil industry not so happy.. more cost = more profit margin, basic business for middlemen..)

Much like Enron and the California energy crisis; Now they are reaping the rewards of their effort at the expense of gutting our nation.. note the record profits on every major in the oil industry and our current refinery shortage as proof of concept on these various tactics..

Now some may say mother nature this or that.. do your research on refinery capacity about 10 years ago and refinery capacity now.. there is a pattern of less refineries more production from less refineries.. While this is a expected business model to keep cost down for the producers we now see the strategy of keeping all our eggs in one basket.. any disruptions from a storm to a pipe blowout now causes major disruption to the gas futures in this country.. hence making it 50+ dollars to fill your tank of gas..

While i commend the oil companies for the excellent business acumen to legitimately gouge us with little govt oversite thru the use of special interest What they fail to realise is that this country is completely dependent on oil / energy for every aspect of our american lives..(trucker nation) And by exhibiting unbridled greed they are deep sixing our economy.. (we are not even talking katrina / rita costs yet..)

Check your current inflation index.. its not pretty.. and getting worse.. the feds already reacted and will react more if necessary.. That will deepsix the housing market (new stock market bubble) because of undesirable loans.. watch for a increase in forclosure also driving the bank loan rate even higher..

Another scenario is we're not even into winter yet, when the markets pick up to the rise in demand of heating oil..if we have a bitter winter watch out, im thinking 5-6$ a gallon.. (regardless of rita / katrina) (fellas novemeber is the end of storm season still plenty of time for another)

Opec has raised production and there is no shortage of crude on the market.. the current bull run on oil is specualtion driven, futures.. setting off a feeding frenzy..

The problem is the refineries and their consolidation tactics..

Grab your futures now becuase once winter hits expect fuel to go thru roof..(if rita hits hard then it will go thru the roof now and to the moon in winter.....)

Also do you think that the oil industry should be more regulated.. IMO they do.. they are the lifeblood for our current economy and any change or disruption has adverse effects on our entire society..

Free market is great when everybody plays by the rules.. as we can see not everybody does.. Enron being the most recent example of unbridled greed at the expense of a nation.. surprisingly they got caught.. red handed price fixing, I wish the same scenario would befall the current oil majors for their syndicate type tactics..

the oil majors are following Enrons model to a T...the similarities are amazing..

2 cents.

DoctorYo

PS: this isn't conspiracy theory.. its human nature greed theory..

Krusher · « **Reply #46 on:** September 23, 2005, 10:57:33 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by laho
Yes, he really can do something if he wants to!

Kyoto Protocol

Just My2Cents from faaaar away.

We should sign it then pretty much ignore it like the rest of the world.

Shifty · « **Reply #47 on:** September 23, 2005, 11:01:20 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by DoctorYO
I think you fellas are missing the point..

About ten years ago the major companies went on a mission of gobbling up all the mom and pop refineries (private owned refineries were struggling with the new enviro laws and were ripe for takeover) on a huge market consolidation.. using this ENRON model of gobbling up capacity then gutting the refinery capacity to form a another road to artificially gouge the consumer..(it was like 28 bucks per barrel and opec was happy..us oil industry not so happy.. more cost = more profit margin, basic business for middlemen..)

Much like Enron and the California energy crisis; Now they are reaping the rewards of their effort at the expense of gutting our nation.. note the record profits on every major in the oil industry and our current refinery shortage as proof of concept on these various tactics..

Now some may say mother nature this or that.. do your research on refinery capacity about 10 years ago and refinery capacity now.. there is a pattern of less refineries more production from less refineries.. While this is a expected business model to keep cost down for the producers we now see the strategy of keeping all our eggs in one basket.. any disruptions from a storm to a pipe blowout now causes major disruption to the gas futures in this country.. hence making it 50+ dollars to fill your tank of gas..

While i commend the oil companies for the excellent business acumen to legitimately gouge us with little govt oversite thru the use of special interest What they fail to realise is that this country is completely dependent on oil / energy for every aspect of our american lives..(trucker nation) And by exhibiting unbridled greed they are deep sixing our economy.. (we are not even talking katrina / rita costs yet..)

Check your current inflation index.. its not pretty.. and getting worse.. the feds already reacted and will react more if necessary.. That will deepsix the housing market (new stock market bubble) because of undesirable loans.. watch for a increase in forclosure also driving the bank loan rate even higher..

Another scenario is we're not even into winter yet, when the markets pick up to the rise in demand of heating oil..if we have a bitter winter watch out, im thinking 5-6$ a gallon.. (regardless of rita / katrina) (fellas novemeber is the end of storm season still plenty of time for another)

Opec has raised production and there is no shortage of crude on the market.. the current bull run on oil is specualtion driven, futures.. setting off a feeding frenzy..

The problem is the refineries and their consolidation tactics..

Grab your futures now becuase once winter hits expect fuel to go thru roof..(if rita hits hard then it will go thru the roof now and to the moon in winter.....)

Also do you think that the oil industry should be more regulated.. IMO they do.. they are the lifeblood for our current economy and any change or disruption has adverse effects on our entire society..

Free market is great when everybody plays by the rules.. as we can see not everybody does.. Enron being the most recent example of unbridled greed at the expense of a nation.. surprisingly they got caught.. red handed price fixing, I wish the same scenario would befall the current oil majors for their syndicate type tactics..

the oil majors are following Enrons model to a T...the similarities are amazing..

2 cents.

DoctorYo

PS: this isn't conspiracy theory.. its human nature greed theory..

What you say makes a lot of sense. Seeing how dependent we are on oil/gas is scary. The fact is though we are , and looking to squril **** powered cars is not the answer. I don't know what the answer is , but there needs to be a major change in the way this business is conducted. Theres too much weakness in the current method that can be exploited by enemies, and greed. IMHO

Nilsen · « **Reply #48 on:** September 23, 2005, 11:05:18 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusher
We should sign it then pretty much ignore it like the rest of the world.

What countries are ignoring it and how?

Krusher · « **Reply #49 on:** September 23, 2005, 01:19:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen
What countries are ignoring it and how?

China, India, Brazil, Iran and 40+ other countries who have agreed to it.

Lets see, As a whole the EU's has gone up. The UK's has gone up 3 percent since 2000. Canada's has increased 21 percent since 1990. The so called developing world has gone up 37 percent. They (the UN) tried to say that overall it has dropped 5 percent, but that was mainly from the economic restructuring of the old Soviet Union. (see the UN's web page)

You could point to a few success stories, maybe Norway who is a big league exporter of oil but a minor player in any other industry. How easy would it be if they actually had to produced something to pay for all those social programs

Look, IMO Kyoto is a failure and it is never going to meet its goals. Feel free to bash the big bad USA and Bush for realizing that Kyoto is nothing more than a Robin Hood plan.

BTW if China and India continue on their current path the the USA's carbons should drop on their own.

Nilsen · « **Reply #50 on:** September 23, 2005, 01:22:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusher
You could point to a few success stories, maybe Norway who is a big league exporter of oil but a minor player in any other industry. How easy would it be if they actually had to produced something to pay for all those social programs

nice try Krusher

In 1999 oil and gas only accounted for 35% of the exports.

Krusher · « **Reply #51 on:** September 23, 2005, 07:09:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen
nice try Krusher

In 1999 oil and gas only accounted for 35% of the exports.

Only?

Nilsen · « **Reply #52 on:** September 24, 2005, 02:21:53 AM »

JTs · « **Reply #53 on:** September 24, 2005, 01:53:24 PM »

you should be worring about the price of and avalability of disel fuel. just think what the price of everything will be when fuel hits $5 a gallon

Krusher · « **Reply #54 on:** September 25, 2005, 09:30:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusher

Look, IMO Kyoto is a failure and it is never going to meet its goals. Feel free to bash the big bad USA and Bush for realizing that Kyoto is nothing more than a Robin Hood plan.

It looks like Tony Blair is coming around

Link

Tony Blair has admitted that the fight to prevent global warming by ordering countries to cut greenhouse gases will never be won.
The Prime Minister said "no country is going to cut its growth or consumption" despite environmental fears.

Mr Blair's comments, which he said were "brutally honest",

beet1e · « **Reply #55 on:** September 26, 2005, 07:46:25 AM »

Krusher,

I read that article. Did you read the last paragraph?

Quote

A Downing Street spokesman said last night: "The Prime Minister's comments should not be taken out of context. He has said on numerous occasions that the Kyoto protocol was and is crucial and the fact that 156 countries have signed up to it is an enormous achievement."

Take anything that Blair says with a pinch of salt. He is the master of spin.

Last night he was on the 10pm news in an interview. Of the National Health Service he said words to the effect that he wanted it to become so good that people would not feel tempted to buy into private medical care, even if they could afford it. LOL! - That scenario is unlikely to exist in the next 100 years.

Krusher · « **Reply #56 on:** September 26, 2005, 12:07:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by beet1e
Krusher,

I read that article. Did you read the last paragraph? Take anything that Blair says with a pinch of salt. He is the master of spin.

Last night he was on the 10pm news in an interview. Of the National Health Service he said words to the effect that he wanted it to become so good that people would not feel tempted to buy into private medical care, even if they could afford it. LOL! - That scenario is unlikely to exist in the next 100 years.

It still dosn't change the bottom line..

Kyoto will never work.

Nashwan · « **Reply #57 on:** September 26, 2005, 12:34:05 PM »

Blair signed Britain up to Kyoto. Since then his government has poured a fortune into wind power, which they believed would reduce fossil fuel use for power generation. They opposed nuclear power on ideological grounds (Blair was himself a member of CND in the 80s)

Of course, wind power has turned out to be a waste of time, and is contributing only a tiny amount of generation. As a result, more coal is being burned, and Britain is actually increasing it's emissions, not reducing them.

Blair is trying to spin away his failure before it becomes an issue, by moving beyond Kyoto.