Author Topic: shooting myself in the foot?  (Read 856 times)

Offline OOZ662

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7019
shooting myself in the foot?
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2005, 10:33:57 AM »
eagl, I got a PC2100 stick I'm trying to get rid of. It's about a year old and only 256MB. I'll send it to ya free.

By the way, just for the "what the hell" purpose, get your biggest house fan, plop it next to the computer, and turn it on. Does wonders but looks very smurfy. :D
A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.

Offline eagl

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6769
shooting myself in the foot?
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2005, 03:01:35 PM »
Thanks OOZ.  Maybe it will help.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline eagl

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6769
shooting myself in the foot?
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2005, 04:31:04 PM »
Turns out it is most likely a cpu heat problem.  I got the computer stable in the sense that it wouldn't flake out running any particular bit of software, but eventually it would crash, quicker if under heavy load.  Reversing the cpu fan helped but not enough.  I took another case fan and just laid it loosly on the top (side) of the heatsink and set it to run, and it ran prime95 torture test for over 12 hours where before it would ALWAYS crash after no more than 4 hours.

It looks like a permanent fix is going to involve a new case, or abandoning the parts.  Since I last had this cpu/mobo in a premium case and NEVER had any cpu heat problems, I didn't realize how close to the edge it was thermally.  I've tried undervolting and underclocking the cpu but nothing works except the added cooling, but this case is just set up wrong.  Way too old-skool.  There is no way whatsoever to get a decent heatsink and fan on top of the cpu because of the power supply interference.

I do have an old P3 celeron 1.4 ghz and mobo that worked ok in this case but it's a bit weak for a full-featured htpc box.  In a test I did a couple of months before, it just couldn't encode mpeg2 without dropping frames and that's no good.

I just don't want to waste any more money on this because at some point I'd be better off buying an A64 barebones and starting over, and that defeats the whole point of reusing parts that aren't fast enough for gaming but are still fast enough for other stuff.  A decent case that wouldn't look like crap will cost me at least $80, $130-$170 if I go for an HTPC styled case.

Ah well...  At least now I know what the main problem is.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Charon

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3705
shooting myself in the foot?
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2005, 05:24:40 PM »
Thermal grease can have a big impact -- both the quality of the grease and its coverage and the fit of the processor. Slight variations can have major impacts on heat.

I got some arctic silver 5 and it works great.

One suggestion is a small PCI slot fan. I got one for a very tight media box with heat problems like yours and it works great with virtually no noise. Can't remember which one, but newegg specs and reviews should help find a quiet one.

Charon

Offline StarOfAfrica2

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5162
      • http://www.vf-17.org
shooting myself in the foot?
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2005, 09:40:14 PM »
Eagl, if I may make a suggestion, as one cheapskate to another?

I built a socket 754 setup for the wife about 6 months ago.  For one reason or another she didnt like it.  It was a little A64 2600+ processor and some old RAM I had.  I took it, and swapped the processor for a 6600GT video card, figuring I'd keep using my XP 2600+ for now and save the other motherboard and case for an upgrade.  Well, now I need one.

The motherboard only cost me 40 bucks.  754 boards are dirt cheap right now.  And the new 64 bit Semprons absolutely ROCK for as cheap as they are.  They are just 90nm A64s with the voltage dropped down to 1.4 from 1.5.  Sure they are a tad slower than the same number A64, but not by that much.  Great budget processor/motherboard combo.  I should finish getting everything together in a couple weeks.  I got screwed on the 6600, so all I have is my old FX 5900U.  Point is, the CPU and motherboard together were barely over 100 bucks.  Thats almost Athlon XP combo prices, and getting the 64 bit processor.

Oh, and of course it runs soooooo much cooler than the old XP.

Offline eagl

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6769
shooting myself in the foot?
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2005, 05:03:57 AM »
Charon,

I have AS5 on the heatsink/cpu and it must be a good thermal connection because the heatsink gets hot as heck.  There just isn't enough airflow right over the heatsink itself due to the zero clearance between the heatsink and the power supply.  The case isn't even put together so a pci card fan probably wouldn't help.  What it seems to need is airflow directly onto and across the cpu heatsink, and there just isn't any easy way to do that with this case.

If I had one of those heatsinks where the fan blew across it from the side, maybe it would work but I don't have one of those and I don't want to throw away money by buying yet another custom socket A heatsink.

SoA, a socket 754 solution is a good idea for this kind of application.  Those boards and cpus are probably the best "budget performance" parts out there IMHO, and I think they'd be perfect in any HTPC.  I've looked at those 754 combos pretty hard, and almost got one.  There are even some microATX ones that would be spiffy in a custom HTPC case.  

The main problem I have is that I have a lot of parts but to really "finish" it off as a nice HTPC would cost me nearly $400 because my only extra case is totally unsuitable for modern ATX boards.  Even a cool running pentium M or A64 might not work.  And if I get a new case, I'm going to get an HTPC case which right now is a minimum of $150 for one that holds an ATX board and is even marginally usable.  I've read so many reviews of HTPC cases that simply don't have room for normal components that I'm a bit afraid to buy one.  The only good reviews, including pics that show you can actually plug in the hard drive without snapping off connectors and stuff, are for cases that cost well over $150.

Yea, if I bite the bullet and make the investment, I'll probably go with a new-build A64 mobo (AGP or integrated video so I don't have to buy a new vid card too) and a nice htpc case.  Might need a new power supply too.  My old memory is DDR so hopefully it isn't bad, and the failed memtest is just due to the old VIA memory controller on the old mobo.

With the extra fan blowing directly on the heatsink, it just passed it's 16 hour on prime95 torture test.  I've done the torture test using both the "max heat" and "blend" settings so both the cpu and memory have had at least 12 hours of hard work, without failing.  It ran a 3D graphics screensaver for 8 hours so the video card isn't causing heat related crashes either, and I got a score of about 9900 in 3dmark2001SE without glitches so overall the system is "healthy" I think.

A side consideration is that winXP would probably nuke my license certificate if I migrated it to a new mobo.  I hate microsoft.  I have 6 legal winXP licenses but can only use 4 of them due to the hardware changing beyond what microsoft says is legit for an OEM license.  Change the hardware too much, and they won't unlock the license anymore.  Bastards.  I'm TRYING to do this legally but they'd rather I switch to linux than let me use the licenses I paid for.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline StarOfAfrica2

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5162
      • http://www.vf-17.org
shooting myself in the foot?
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2005, 11:51:06 AM »
Why?  I've upgraded my motherboard 3 times on this copy of XP alone, and they've always restarted it for me.  Granted the copy itself locked me out and I had to call tech support, but they gave me a new code each time and got me back up and running.  Just as long as you have a good reason (like an upgrade) they cant refuse you.  Your end user license clearly states you can install your copy of XP on as many computers as you like, just only on one at a time.

Offline eagl

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6769
shooting myself in the foot?
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2005, 01:49:11 PM »
The OEM license is different, and that's what I have.  The OEM license is good only on the computer it came with.  I suppose technically that means that the $3 wiring harness that my OEM license came with must be in the computer, but they haven't managed to put serial numbers on wires yet so I guess I'm breaking the law.

Seriously, I had to go up 3 levels of supervisors the last time I swapped out a mobo for a winxp oem license, and I'd rather not try that again because the definition of "the original computer" is left entirely up to MS.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Boroda

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5755
shooting myself in the foot?
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2005, 06:33:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
 There just isn't enough airflow right over the heatsink itself due to the zero clearance between the heatsink and the power supply.  The case isn't even put together so a pci card fan probably wouldn't help.  What it seems to need is airflow directly onto and across the cpu heatsink, and there just isn't any easy way to do that with this case.


Eagl, if you have an old case with a "vertical" power supply - try simply taking off the PS cover. It helped me in exactly the same situation. Now the "guts" of the power supply are exposed, so I usually pull out a power cord before gtting into the case with a screwdriver. Power supply boxes usually are made of two pieces, you simply unscrew it and remove the part that doesn't have mounting holes and a fan, it gives you extra space for a CPU cooler.

Offline eagl

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6769
shooting myself in the foot?
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2005, 04:45:55 PM »
Boroda,

Interesting solution, but one of the big heatsinks inside the power supply is just a centimeter from the face of the heatsink fan, even with the power supply housing removed.  I'd be blowing hot power supply air onto the heatsink.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.