Question for the tinfoil hatters:

[Jackal1]

When you stop being the government of the country, then you will be required to bow to the new tenant.

[Charon]

Lazs said it well. I would only add that we will not lose our freedoms through a military coup, but likely with the willing support of our fellow citizens, soldiers and police officers who are too busy, lazy or disinterested to appreciate what is being lost. With the help of a lazy, inadequate broadcast media (print does a better job, but you’d have to read more than the sports page and tempo/style sections).

“If ya ain’t guilty, what are you afraid of!”

“I think you have the right to say or do a lot of things -- sure -- but I think we can all agree that (insert disagreeable fringe opinion) crosses the line!”

“I need to feel more secure!”

I suppose this is just another, unavoidable risk that comes with democracy.

Charon

[lasersailor184]

Don't confuse the loss of rights with democracy.

The loss of rights comes from communism.  Pure and simple.

[Yeager]

What is freedom?  

What is being free?

Ultimately, every human being has freedom, as long as we are capable of generating individual thoughts free from self-imposed restrictions (aka religion), we can think freely.  All other actions beyond what we think, our inner thoughts, are controlled by laws that the people determine to be necessary.

If we need to have national identification cards, and we the people decide it to be so, then let it be so.

[Hangtime]

Ok, how do we stop it? How do we kill the disease? When, where is the line 'that's not to be crossed'? How much longer till our government is what we fear more than a terrorist with a rag on his head 15,000 miles away? Gent's are we already there?.

Judging by the posts and subject matter as of late.. who's a bigger threat to the american way of life and the constitution? Osama or Bush?

  "They came after the Jews, and I was not a Jew, so I did not object.

  They came after the Catholics, and I was not a Catholic, so I did not object.

  They came after the trade unionists,  and I was  not a trade unionists, so I did not object.

  Then they came after me and there was nobody left to object."  

Those were the words of Rev. Martin Niemoeller. They were his explanation of why he spoke out against the Nazis. He spent eight years in concentration camps for leading Protestant church opposition to Adolph Hitler.  The Nazis imprisoned him at Sachsenhausen in 1937 for criticizing the Third Reich.  He was freed from Dachau in 1945 by US troops.  He died at the age of 92 on March 6, 1984.

At what point is it legitimate to resist with force the encrochment of government? Nobody's gonna call 'shenanigans' and start a revolution because of a building permit or a grass cops. Nobody's gonna revolt and take up arms becuase of a speed limit or seatbelt law.

But when do we say 'enough'? After they've incrementally removed our means to resist?

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Yeager
What is freedom?  

What is being free?

Ultimately, every human being has freedom, as long as we are capable of generating individual thoughts free from self-imposed restrictions (aka religion), we can think freely.  All other actions beyond what we think, our inner thoughts, are controlled by laws that the people determine to be necessary.

If we need to have national identification cards, and we the people decide it to be so, then let it be so.

 Freedom is that instant between when someone tells you to do something and when you decide how to respond. It's the moments after that that decide your fate.

[lasersailor184]

My line is clearly drawn in the sand for all to see.


It is the next piece of anti-gun legislation.  I am willing to bring the whole thing down over that.

[Yeager]

Freedom is that instant between when someone tells you to do something and when you decide how to respond. It's the moments after that that decide your fate.
====
Might I suggest setting up a scenario editor in your minds eye and playing through all the plausible situations and deciding ahead of time what your response will be.  That way you can have your fate decided well in advance and avoid the nastiness of the moment.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Hangtime

At what point is it legitimate to resist with force the encrochment of government? Nobody's gonna call 'shenanigans' and start a revolution because of a building permit or a grass cops. Nobody's gonna revolt and take up arms becuase of a speed limit or seatbelt law.

But when do we say 'enough'? After they've incrementally removed our means to resist?

 Good points. Good question.
What concerns................no, hell...........scares the crap out of me is the lulling and simplicity of how our rights are being slowly, but surely eroded and taken away, one by one. Very smart, very simple. If you tryed to pass a lump sum bill including the small laws/restrictions and rights being taken away in one package it would cause a national uprising. No doubt. By sniping them one at a time it is viewed by a lot as a "no biggy".
  Very few seem to be able to view the big picture of what is happening in the last few years. Everyone has been lulled by the fast pace, big bucks, big houses, 'don`t rock my boat' society.
  Laws are very rarely passed by the people anymore. Let`s face it...most laws are put into place by lobbying by big money organizations. In other words,  they are bought. We are falling for it and doing nothing while we are selling ourself out.
  The youth are being taught less and less about the founding of this country and the importance of the constitution.
  When the importance no longer exists, the constitution might as well be null and void. It can and will be changed at will.

     If viewing things from some other place than through my rectum puts me in the 'Tinfoil Hatters" group....sign me up and issue my membership card.

[Sixpence]

Lol, this cracks me up. We are the government. We decide who makes the decision. You all make it sound like it's some entity we have no control over.

The problem is no one takes the time to get involved. It's like those union members who complain about the union but I never see one of them at the union meetings.

If you are going to sit on the bench and watch, don't complain when you lose the game.

To steal a quote, "there are two types of men, those who say "I can't", and those who say "I can", both are right, which one are you?"

[lasersailor184]

That was the idea Sixpence.  But we ain't in Kansas anymore.


The government has grown beyond control.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
Don't confuse the loss of rights with democracy.

The loss of rights comes from communism.  Pure and simple.

You're selling totalitarianism pretty short.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Sixpence
Lol, this cracks me up. We are the government. We decide who makes the decision. You all make it sound like it's some entity we have no control over.
 

  Were you a part of the "We" group who decided that the taxpayers were going to be charged $600.00 for  government project wire cutters?
  Are you part of the "We" group who decided that Federal agencies could enter homes and private property becuse of gun ownership and trumped up warrants?
  Maybe you are in the lesser group of "Wes' who decides to pay the aforementioned "grass cops" ,"hose cops" or maybe a part of the "We' who decided we needed laws and cops to enforce the laws concerning where one could park on his or her property. Is that the case?
  Maybe you are one of the 'We" group who supports and passes the paint scheme and fence selection laws for his or her private property. Is that it?
  More importantly , are you one of the "We' groups who are going to attempt to take mine and others firearms away because "We" decided "We" know what`s best for YOU?
  Laws/restrictions are being bought and sold on a wholesale basis. Are you part of the "We" group supporting this?
  I know damn well I am not. I have not been consulted.
  That`s the problem. We, the people are being pushed aside and ran over because "We" know what`s good for YOU. We, the people are being sold out by Bend Over Bob`s. So Bob, where is the annual or monthly "We" meetings being held at now?

[Yeager]

I like, totally agree....totally like.  In a total fashion.

Totally

Does that make me a totalitarion?

[Shamus]

Originally posted by Yeager

Might I suggest setting up a scenario editor in your minds eye and playing through all the plausible situations and deciding ahead of time what your response will be.  That way you can have your fate decided well in advance and avoid the nastiness of the moment.

Well that would be fine if you could rely on some peramiters for your scenario editor. But if that pesky constitution/bill of rights keeps getting modified or changed in the name of more efficient law/terrorisim/drug enforcement, what does that do to your fate?

shamus