Author Topic: Emotionally Torn  (Read 869 times)

Offline Wolf14

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« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2005, 10:53:20 PM »
Find a civilian job and get out. That way you can still try to change things by voting and not have to worry about supporting the things you are told to support.

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2005, 10:59:20 PM »
Horsepucky.

Think about this.. look around you. How many fellow servicemen think like you? How many would bear arms against Americans? How many would 'obey unlawful orders' that violate the constitution?.

You may be the guy that one day saves the lives of a coupla hundered americans because your in a position to do so, just because of the way you think.. because you've learned to see without the government colored filter.

Do you know that on the special forces application there's a particular question that I find a bit bothersome. "Would you confiscate arms from americans if ordered to do so?"

Stick it out, ASTAC. Watch whats going on. Maybe keep tabs on what's going on. You'll know when the time to go is.. but not because your disenchanted with the politcal monkeys or the government alphabet soup agencies. We need Americans in the service.. lots of 'em. Not traitors. Americans. When the time comes, if it comes; folks like you in the military could make a massive difference.

The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

storch

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« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2005, 11:02:00 PM »
If I were you astac I would invest in a tin foil hat.

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2005, 11:05:15 PM »
PS

Quote
One day the Barbarians will be at our gates too...I hate to be here when that happens.


Disagree. Think about it. When the 'barbarians' arrive at the Gates, I know exactly where I wanna be. My vote WILL count that day. I suspect you'd be there too.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Charon

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« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2005, 09:15:37 AM »


IMO you can still serve the people and the Constitution with a clear conscience. And with the nature of your job, you shouldn’t have to cross any personal moral boundaries any time soon, one would hope. And if you do, the people and the Constitution are your final consideration where legal and illegal orders are concerned. The POTUS works for both the same as you.

Even though the government is a distortion of what it claims to be, poltitcs is a WWF wrestling match where issues give way to tag lines and emotion -- the process remains free and there are outlets to work for change within the system. Change will be hard, but not impossible. Perhaps, in the wake of Katrina and Iraq there will be a new awaking of the American attention span. Or, maybe not. The tipping point between a republic and a show government hasn't been crossed yet, and is likely not just around the corner.

Charon

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2005, 09:32:57 AM »
with hang and charon on this one.   We need people of consience in the military..

It is rumored that there was a poll conducted by the (navy?) to it's soldiers asking them if they would fight citizens if guns were banned and the country met armed resitance.  

I don't even know if it is true but there is your example of constitution vs orders.   We need military people saying no to unconstitutional orders.... more and more crisis will "appear" where the government will claim that the only way to help us is to send in the military against the people... stupid citizens will buy it.

interesting times..

lazs

Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2005, 09:43:36 AM »
Most are living a good life. They have good jobs, drive their suv's, go on vacations, live in their split entry ranches, bbq on the grill on their newly installed patio and eat in their new screen house. Their property value has increased tenfold, they enjoy going out on their new boat, or taking a cruise on their new harley. Maybe go camping in their new rv.

Hardly the making of a revolution..........at this point
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline eagl

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« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2005, 10:26:31 AM »
ASTAC,

I'd say get out if it's that painful for you.  Leverage your military experience into a good civvy job.  While you're at it, enter politics.  Start small by joining local councils, school boards, etc., then grow.  County, etc.  Get active in the local party politics.

Seriously, it sounds like you have serious reservations about what you're doing and with the military actively engaged in combat right now, the last thing you need to do is keep doing what you're doing.  Reservations in combat can result in unnecessary deaths and then you'd either feel worse, or be dead and everyone else would feel worse.  The paycheck just isn't worth it if you're heart's not in the game IMHO.  You can get paid a lot more for doing a less dangerous job somewhere else.

For what it's worth, lots of people feel the same way but everyone has their own reasons for doing what they do.  As an example, the recent push to abolish the posse comitatus act is something I hoped I would never see, because it basically says that the fed govt can push federal troops into any state at any time for any reason the govt comes up with.  Given the jackbooted nature of the homeland security department that gobbled up FEMA, how long do you think it will take before a real or imagined emergency results in the Army being sent into an area against the wishes of a state?

If I was a state governor and FEMA or homeland security pushed Fed troops into my state, I'd mobilize the state natl guard AGAINST them, and make them fight their way in.  It's a clear violation of states rights, and NOBODY can order me to fire on Americans within the borders of the US.  That's not a role the US military has ever wanted or should ever have, but guess what - it's already been authorized while everyone was fixated on the hurricanes.

Would I quit NOW?  No.  Would I disobey an unconstitutional order to invade a state?  You bet your bellybutton I would.  I hope my superiors feel the same way.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2005, 10:40:37 AM »
One day the Barbarians will be at our gates too...I hate to be here when that happens.
====
Relax and chill out dude.....After reading your post I have concluded that you are suffering from navytoxosis.

Evolve into something more fun and useful....join the MARINES!
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2005, 10:42:29 AM »
very well put eagl.

lazs

Offline Regular

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« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2005, 11:09:23 AM »
I use to think like that,

Then I just remind my self that I was born an American and not  born any where else in the world!

Im sure you can find a job that pays good if Navy is on your resume.

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2005, 11:38:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ASTAC
What? So I have mental problems because I hate the government and disagree with all their policies and motives?

See that is part of America's problem. Everybody is so brainwashed to believe that "they" know what is best. Anyone who disagrees is unstable or dangerous to the public.


First off please point out where in my post I said you had "mental problems".

Secondly point out where I said I "knew best" or that anyone else said they knew best.

What I DID say was that you needed to find a far more competent source of information to your situation than a computer game bbs. That information could be job related, career choice related, related to leaving the service if you really can't handle your situation, or perhaps just an extended leave.

The other thing I said was I wasn't sure that this was not a troll and I'm still not sure, that's another problem with using a GAME bbs for discussions.

Again, IF this is a serious situation for you then you need to find COMPETANT help in making what could obviously be a life changing decision. AFIAC this game bbs is not the place to be looking. If advising you to seek more qualified help for a potentially real situation upsets you sorry but I still stand by what I said.
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Offline wrag

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« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2005, 01:04:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
Horsepucky.

Think about this.. look around you. How many fellow servicemen think like you? How many would bear arms against Americans? How many would 'obey unlawful orders' that violate the constitution?.

You may be the guy that one day saves the lives of a coupla hundered americans because your in a position to do so, just because of the way you think.. because you've learned to see without the government colored filter.

Do you know that on the special forces application there's a particular question that I find a bit bothersome. "Would you confiscate arms from americans if ordered to do so?"

Stick it out, ASTAC. Watch whats going on. Maybe keep tabs on what's going on. You'll know when the time to go is.. but not because your disenchanted with the politcal monkeys or the government alphabet soup agencies. We need Americans in the service.. lots of 'em. Not traitors. Americans. When the time comes, if it comes; folks like you in the military could make a massive difference.



Hmmmm..........

I thought that the military, along with local law enforcement, was taking peoples weapons already???

Thought they were doing it in New Orleans?

Perhaps the information I got was incorrect?

Law suite was filed and someone resigned.

The Patriot Act basically set it up so the government can call anyone it wants a terrorist and lock em up without a trial or even having to justify their actions to the people they work for.
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2005, 01:14:49 PM »
The Patriot Act basically set it up so the government can call anyone it wants a terrorist and lock em up without a trial
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Where do you get your information?
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Offline SkyWolf

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« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2005, 02:03:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime

Do you know that on the special forces application there's a particular question that I find a bit bothersome. "Would you confiscate arms from americans if ordered to do so?"




Just out of curiosity... how do you know that?