Author Topic: Me 262 problem  (Read 1292 times)

Offline Golfer

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Me 262 problem
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2005, 02:43:23 PM »
Its not that shutting off the engines gives you more drag...it just takes away the thrust.  The engines are set at 3000rpm when at idle which is a good correction since many jets run at 40% ish (and a very very big ISH that is for the know it alls out there) depending on the airplane and engine.  Before it would drop to zero and there was no thrust...now we've got it and again I think a good change for realism.

I recorded a film of landing the jet and procedures...will post as soon as i edit it for length.

Offline moot

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Me 262 problem
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2005, 09:43:14 PM »
Thanks Golfer.
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline frank3

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Me 262 problem
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2005, 11:59:04 PM »
Is it possible for the jets to change rpm?

Offline LLv34_Snefens

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Me 262 problem
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2005, 02:34:19 AM »
No.
Snefens, Lentolaivue 34.
Location: Aarhus, Denmark

"Luck beats skill anytime"

Offline frank3

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Me 262 problem
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2005, 02:39:28 AM »
Any information about the 262's landing speed etc out there? What was their approuch-speed, landing speed, flap & throttle settings?

Im sure there must be SOME original data about such a famous jet?

Offline OOZ662

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« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2005, 02:49:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by LLv34_Snefens
No.


There is, but there is no manifold pressure. The RPM = Your throttle.
A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.

Offline frank3

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Me 262 problem
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2005, 03:17:49 AM »
Ah ofcourse! It's so logical, I have to fly the 262 abit more often! :)

Offline HoHun

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Me 262 problem
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2005, 04:03:19 PM »
Hi Ooz,

>Easy way to dig trenches though.

Test pilot Beauvais once overshot on take-off, tearing off his gear and plowing a field. The medics, finding him un-injured, presented him with a potato they had found in the wake of his crash - "the first ever harvested with jet technology".

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Offline LLv34_Snefens

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Me 262 problem
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2005, 05:05:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by OOZ662
There is, but there is no manifold pressure. The RPM = Your throttle.


Correct you are. In my haste I just thought of how the "regular" rpm was changed and that it had no effect in the jets.
Snefens, Lentolaivue 34.
Location: Aarhus, Denmark

"Luck beats skill anytime"

Offline MiloMorai

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Me 262 problem
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2005, 05:28:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by frank3
Any information about the 262's landing speed etc out there? What was their approuch-speed, landing speed, flap & throttle settings?

Im sure there must be SOME original data about such a famous jet?


Single engine landing

1. Trimmiming tabs on the rudder must be in 'neurtal' position.

2. Minimum approach speed 260kph(162mph). At this speed the a/c drops between 1 > 2m per sec at full throttle, and with the undercarrge lowered.

3. Only lower the undercarriage when the airfield can be reached without again opening the throttle.

Lower flaps


The above is translated from the POH, L.Dv.T2262 A-1 and A-2 as found in the Classic 262 series of books.

Offline Golfer

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Me 262 problem
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2005, 11:57:51 AM »
262 Film

Here is the film as promised.  I’ve had some sound recording issues in the training arena as of late so if the transmissions are garbled or you miss any part for any reason please let me know.  For some reason the TA and offline only have this problem and the MA is unaffected.   I listened to films from last night and all last week from the MA and they’re loud and clear whereas the TA I am quite garbled.  Who knows?

Good Luck!



Golfer’s tips and guidelines for the Me-262.

1.)  This is a very aerodynamically clean and efficient airplane.  That means that it will not “go down and slow down” without some coaxing from the pilot.  Fortunately we have a technique just for this problem called a “Slip.”  Do not confuse this for something your wife, girlfriend or significant other might wear in the bedroom.  The slip is used every day in the real world and is certainly a valid maneuver in Aces High.  In fact on nearly every 262 flight in normal MA play I use it to land.

How to slip:  Apply light coat of spray on cooking oil to tile floor.  Walk on floor at brisk pace wearing socks.

How to slip an airplane:  Coordinated and simultaneous use of rudder an aileron.  Not just coordinated use, but there are some rules.  You will use aileron opposite the direction of rudder.  When you attempt to slip lets say using right rudder here is what you’re going to want to do:
•Smoothly begin applying right rudder and adding left aileron to correct for drift and to keep your airplane aligned with the runway centerline.  
•Smoothly decrease the pressures together as you come out of the slip to maintain at least an illusion of positive control of the airplane :)

2.) Throttles…USE THEM!  As mentioned above this is a very clean and efficient airplane.  As a rule of thumb any time you’re going to be pointing the nose down…take out some power.  5000rpm usually works nicely.  If you’re going to be nose down more than 20º then idle power is the way to go.  I’ve seen many new 262 jet jockeys take their first flights in the airplane during live MA play.  I’ve seen many new 262 jet jockeys take their first nosedive and premature reintroduction to terra ferma on that same flight.

The pilots of these turbojet powered lawn darts have grown used to buzzing around the MA with the throttles always at full power.  The lack of use has turned the throttle into an armrest and you definitely want to be active with the power when flying the 262 because proper throttle management will save you from picking dirt from your teeth.

3.) When fighting, fire only one set of guns at a time.  This will nearly double your useful firing time and with those big 30mm cannons you’re not hitting with 4 anything you’re not hitting with 2.  Save yourself the trouble and the short firing time by using them separately.

Good Hunting

Offline frank3

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Me 262 problem
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2005, 09:47:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MiloMorai
Single engine landing

1. Trimmiming tabs on the rudder must be in 'neutral' position.

2. Minimum approach speed 260kph(162mph). At this speed the a/c drops between 1 > 2m per sec at full throttle, and with the undercarrge lowered.


How odd the trimtabs should be in neutral position at a single engine landing, also it's strange that it can maintain 162 mph with full power on the good engine

Maybe it's because jets don't produce torque?

Offline Golfer

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« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2005, 10:17:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by frank3

Maybe it's because jets don't produce torque?



Don't even start that one Frank.  Please.  Do a search but for the love of god man do not start it again.

Offline Golfer

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Me 262 problem
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2005, 10:33:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by frank3
How odd the trim tabs should be in neutral position at a single engine landing, also it's strange that it can maintain 162 mph with full power on the good engine


It's not really odd...it's just the procedure.  It makes sense too and I'll explain why.

I haven't looked up or double checked the source...but it seems logical enough so I'll assume it's good.

It just said rudder Trim Tab...I teach the same to my students because there is a very good reason for this.  For an engine out approach (in any conventional wing mounted engine twin) you're dealing with asymmetric thrust.  This is countered by rudder.  In cruise or en route to the nearest suitable airport the idea is you trim out that required pressure to save you the trouble of actually holding it with your foot which can be very fatiguing over any period of time.

On approach to the airport I neutralize the rudder trim because I prefer a positive feel on approach using the pedals.  I just went through and looked at a number of checklists that I use in various airplanes and noticed they don't say rudder one way or the other.  You would follow your checklist and POH procedure first, but since it's not there it's up to the pilot.  In fact it's not in the ATP Seminole book which I've found (despite the quality of training they provide for a large fee) to be very well written.

At any rate, you're engine out on an approach to landing.  You've got your right engine failed and you've got a lot of LEFT rudder trim to compensate for the right yaw force that that engine is producing.  The airplane is properly configured and you're now flying in a crab (the long axis of the airplane is not aligned with the runway centerline) to the left.  When you go to take out the power, you're hit with a double whammy.  When the thrust being produced by the left engine is taken away by reducing the throttle the nose is now going even further left and will require continuous right rudder throughout the landing flare to keep straight.  Now here's the dilemma you'll find yourself in.  Nosewheel steering!  With all that right rudder in, when the nosewheel finally comes down it will be offset to the right and will give it a good sideload and also risk a blowout if the airplane is heavy/fast enough.  On the ground with a little airspeed...believe it or not the rudder does most of the directional control work rather than the nosewheel so you're going to have a heck of a time fighting between the rudder wanting to pull you left and the nosewheel being offset to the right with the rudder neutralized with pedals.

With the trims set to neutral, all you need to do is fly the airplane down to the ground and as you take out the power you remove the asymmetric thrust.  By the time you're down there isn't enough to matter and when you touch down your rudder is going to be very close to neutral and so is your nosewheel.

Does that help?

Offline Golfer

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Me 262 problem
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2005, 10:36:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by frank3
it's strange that it can maintain 162 mph with full power on the good engine


Why is it strange?

Look at the film above with "single engine" listed.  You'll see its climbing right after takeoff at 250 indicated and going up better than 1000ft/min