Features we NEED to increase immersion...

[JimBear]

Could also disable the guns in Bombers once the wings are off. How many have been pinged or shot down by these "Death Stars" as they spiral crazily down in flames with all guns blazing?

[Fury]

Overheating guns is a great idea.  I have no idea how they did or did not overheat in real life, but spray and pray could be further castrated by overheating guns.

<edit>

Fury

[This message has been edited by Fury (edited 12-14-2000).]

[Nath-BDP]

Umm... ejecting brass could be seen nicely when firing buff guns.   or when Jaboing and planes are close together.

[Sunchaser]

Dammit JimBear, ya got me!

I often ride a bomber in shooting in the hope of maybe getting the guy what done me in.

Have you ever read the story of the B17 gunner who was firing after it sunk below the waves in the North Sea?

As long as the gunner is alive and not totally pinned by whatever forces being exerted on him, he needs no wings to shoot.

OK, no wings and only the manned gun shoots, a compromise.

Like we would actually get any of this stuff implemented anyway.

Come fly the MED, turn off the icons and pretend engine overheat and gun melting is there, I do, MP usually 40-45 max and shoot 3-5 second bursts unless the guy is in the turret with me, then I burn the barrels out.



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When did they put this thing in here and WTF is it for?

[gatt]

Nath, good ideas. I'd like:
- overheating guns,
- jamming guns during high-g maneuvers,
- smoke from firing guns,
- contrails (sp?) from wings during high-g maneuvers (take a look at B17-II, its very nice),
- pilot's fatigue after continuous high-g maneuvers.

[Replicant]

Yeah, realism... how about a 1000 odd drone bombers that drop when you do.... that happened in WW2 too didn't it?

Seriously, you could go on and on about certain topics of realism... the said gun jams... dodgy rounds... dodgy fuel... engine failiure... chutes not opening... bombs not exploding... windscreen freezing up... blah, blah, blah...

Nexx

[BBGunn]

Most of the stuff I have read indicated that guns tended to malfunction at high altitude in the cold air or in high G turns. Bore erosion occurred in direct proportion to the amount of firing but I have never heard of a barrel actually melting on one mission. I'd have to agree that frame rate would suffer with more nitty gritty changes.  

[StSanta]

I don't see gun jams as a real stretch or a super rare extraordinaire request.

With all the odd physics modelling HTC have been into, making a simplified gun jamming algorithm shouldn't be too difficult.

And it'd add lot of immersion.

Unlike the formation of b17's suggested, it can actually be implemented without adding AI or any such stuff.

But I fear it's too hardcore for most AH'ers - just as realistic gun counters appear to be.



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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

[funked]

The problem with gun jams is that the one-plane or one-country zealots will all insist that "their" guns jammed less than the "enemy's" guns.  But AFAIK no data exists to support any such claims.  So it would just be another whine fest.

IMHO discoes do a quite effective job of simulating reliability issues and I have no interest in paying for an online sim which subjects users to these effects.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 12-14-2000).]

[Midnight]

 

Originally posted by Nath-BDP:
Umm... ejecting brass could be seen nicely when firing buff guns.   or when Jaboing and planes are close together.

Nath.. what are you going to do.. look out the window at your wingman or concentrate on the target?

Let's concentrate on more important immersion factors, like night time and EXTERNAL sounds damit. I hate being deaf!



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"Wing up, Get kills, Be happy"

Midnight
13th TAS

[Nath-BDP]

I said nothing about gun jams in my original post, it was about gun overheating not jams.

[Sancho]

I agree with these points.  I'm not in favor of random gun/engine failures (as have been proposed in other threads), but guns should definitely overheat if you aren't firing short controlled bursts.  This ain't the infantry, you can't swap out barrels in the middle of a fight.  There should be a danger of melting barrels if you are spraying too long.

Cloud layers should definitely be implemented, as well as contrails when up hi (dunno, about 25k or so??).  IMO, smoke from guns and ejecting brass would be nice eye candy, but they are less important.  Some other gameplay issues that need to be addressed:

[list=1]

• Sometimes aircraft are viewable sans icon when under your nose or on your low six.  They flash in and out of view sporadically.  They should be obscured by your airplane, but they aren't.  Surprise attacks from below don't work when a flashing plane image is visible.
• Hit sprites still flash across your instument panel when you are pulling lead and the bandit is below your nose.  Sorry but that's gotta go.
• When you shoot a bandit from his dead six, you should be in danger of colliding with debris unless you break off.  If debris hits you, it should damage your AC.
• Attacks from the sun!  When will we have a blinding sun flare???
• Aircraft in "dot range" should blend with the terrain or sky a little better, instead of being an obvious black dot.  Contrails would make spotting strato buffs easier, especially when radar is down.
[/list=a]

"I opened up at approximately three hundred yards, at fifteen thousand feet, and immediately the canopy and parts of the fuselage around the pilot blew off.  Both engines caught on fire at the same time.  The Me 210 flipped to the left and then to the right, which made me pull to the right to avoid hitting him.  A piece of the e/a caused battle damage to the leading edge of my right wing.  I passed so close to the open cockpit, that I could see the pilot sprawled out in such a manner that I believed him dead.  I saw the gunner frantically trying to get out, and a few seconds later saw a large object leave the plane.  The plane went down in a spiral, with both engines burning."
--Lt. George Hall, 63rd FS, 5 Nov 43


[This message has been edited by Sancho (edited 12-16-2000).]

[AKSeaWulfe]

I agree Nath. Oh btw, gun barrels overheating is a part of gun jams.

Oh yeah and acid is fun to fly on. <G>
-SW

[-towd_]

an interesting aside , as the barrels get hotter accuracy goes to crap fast so even one long burst and you can see the effects on most light barreled wepons .would lend another benifit to carful gunnery .

 and jamed guns on most planes could be cleared im shur that could be emulated simple clear command or button . sounds like a cool idea

and hispanos by all acounts jamed alot  

[-lynx-]

Good point towd - spray'n'pray should be a pointless exercise because of that very thing.

AKSea - guns jam in the repeating mechanism - barrel heating has very little to do with it.

Nath - B-20 knocks the socks off any German 20mm, VYa-23 - knocks the socks off just anything .