Author Topic: 190A5 vs P51B (discuss) (Read 699 times)

Krusty · « **on:** October 07, 2005, 12:56:32 AM »

Usual drill. Watch. Discuss. Comment. Suggest. Learn. Etc.

http://www.nakatomitower.com/Krusty190A5vSkuboneP51B.zip

Widewing · « **Reply #1 on:** October 07, 2005, 01:13:42 PM »

Who the heck is Skubone? I can't find any stats for this guy. So, either this was in an HTH room, or in the DA.

As it is, skubone has little experience which is evidenced by many factors. No flap usage to gain angles. Repeated snap stalls/spins. A lack of awareness. No throttle management, etc.

1 v 1, Co-E, Co-alt, the 190A-5 is outclassed by the P-51B. You have an edge in sustained climb (but not at medium or high altitude). Contrary to popular belief, the 190A-5 does not accelerate better than the P-51B. Given equal range of fuel load, the P-51B actually accelerates a bit faster. You do have an advantage in roll rate at low to medium speeds. But on the whole, you are in a hole in terms of performance. So to win, you need help from the enemy pilot, IE: mistakes. Skubone made many. You did well to take advantage.

As it is, the P-51B is one of the very best non-perked fighters in the game. In some respects, it's better than the perked prop fighters. Those who fly both often consider it superior to the P-51D as a dogfighter.

My regards,

Widewing

Krusty · « **Reply #2 on:** October 07, 2005, 03:47:02 PM »

I, too, enjoy the -B over the -D, but that's because nobody ever used to fly the -B. From my point of view, it was a hard fight. I knew he was making some mistakes, but the fact that I was in a 190A5 meant those mistakes only "evened the field"... I had a little bit of a rush afterwards (just a minor one

)

Spatula · « **Reply #3 on:** October 11, 2005, 07:44:10 PM »

I aint seen the film, and ive been away from game for 3 years, but the P-51 was my main/only ride.

I prefer the P51-D cause as i recall it has 6x50cals, where as the B has only 4. 6x50s makes quite a difference in stopping power cause most kills/serious damage come by way of snap-shot, rather than e-wasting tracking shots.
Secondly most fights tend to occur below 15K, where the D has superior acceleration, speed, and climb rate (check the graphs!)
Thirdly it has vastly better visibility - not to be under-rated...

However, having said that the 51-B above 15K is either on par or has better climb and speed than the D.

So for ceiling fights the B is the way to go, for general low to medium alt use the D is a much better aircraft.

Try the D with the 4x50 cals option. Turns better, climbs better than 6x50 option, but lacks snap-shot power. Should be on par with the B in turn rate down low, and better everything else.

I think the B should take the A5 in a knife fight if it came down to it, given even pilot skills, and even fuel loads. But a good/experienced pilot should have finished off the opponent before degenerating into a knife fight with either plane. Having said all that i have seen some 190-A turn some incredible high-speed, high-g turns and very quickly!

My rusty 2 cents...

Krusty · « **Reply #4 on:** October 11, 2005, 09:22:26 PM »

Spatula, you say you've not flown in a few years? Try the latest version. They gave the P51B the Malcolm hood. Visibility is amazing on it now. P51D has better rear view (of course) but the rest is just as good.

Spatula · « **Reply #5 on:** October 11, 2005, 09:43:21 PM »

Sweet. Will try it when i get my new machine up and going.

Still think the D is the better option for med to low fights. Would be interesting to do some tests

OOZ662 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 11, 2005, 10:10:10 PM »

Also (check the test data posted by other users in the Aircraft/Vehicles forum) the P-51B is marginally faster than the P-51D in level flight below 15K. I feel that it turns better and has a very good overall balance; I'd fly it over the D any day. Sure, I get assists like nobody's dream, but the point is in the fun. And the 10-20 perks for every 2 kills. Mmm....

AutoPilot · « **Reply #7 on:** October 13, 2005, 06:01:51 PM »

The 190-A-5 is my main ride.I noticed your fuel setting.It was on auto aft it looked like.The first thing a pilot in a 190-A-5 should do,is select forward fuel tank and burn it down to at least 50% or slightly lower than 50%.The
190s store the majority of the fuel in the forward tank,hence it doesnt
turn over very well.Trust me once that tank is at 50% it flys like a P-51 on crack.In the MA i usually take 50% on-board fuel and a drop tank,upon
take-off i switch over tanks then climb too 20-K,takes about 10 mins. and the forward tank is right at 50%.

I also noticed you were using combat trim.A lot of people in the game think you dont need trim control.They also think that the 190 wont vertical climb with most planes(51,38,etc.)but it will.By using elevator control.If you do not believe
me then try it yourself.Get up too 15-K leave combat trim on and pull straight up,be sure too make a note of how high you climb up vertically.
Now do the same level flight at 15-K ,put the elevator trim all the way up,then pull straight up and note how much you climb.A190 with 50% fuel in the front and elevator trim usage would have allowed you to have had the advantage from the first merge with that B-model IMO.

just my 2 cents.

Krusty · « **Reply #8 on:** October 13, 2005, 06:11:00 PM »

I find that burning off the aft tank helps stability in some cases. Plus it's much smaller. By saying "burn off 50% of the main tank" you mean "40% of the plane's total gas". I just burn the aft first and be done with it.

Also, I'm aware of combat trim issues. I turn it on and off many times during a fight. Sometimes I forget to turn it off (once in a while) in the heat of a fight. I think this was one of those times. (good eyes, though, I didn't notice that when I watched it)

EDIT:

P.S. Using elevator trim full up won't give you any more elevator deflection. I believe HT has said that you get so many degrees for a control surface. Trim works within that range (say, 10-20 degrees? Whatever) but when you have trim and you push your controls to full deflection it will stop at the same place. If an aileron is capable of 60-degrees max deflection, and you have trim full to one side and roll into the trim, it will still stop at 60 degrees.

It just makes it easier to pull up, is all.

AutoPilot · « **Reply #9 on:** October 13, 2005, 07:53:13 PM »

i mean burn the gas in the front of the plane first.

OOZ662 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 13, 2005, 08:38:45 PM »

Fuel was ALWAYS burnt from the AUX tank first in the P51; they used it while waiting for the rest of the squadron to take off. After that was dry, they would switch to DTs and finally MAIN. Aces High automatically drys the AUX tank first because of this, and no gas is loaded into it unless 100% internal fuel is taken.

Krusty · « **Reply #11 on:** October 13, 2005, 08:43:11 PM »

OOZ I was in the 190, not the P51

OOZ662 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 13, 2005, 09:36:52 PM »

I know, just a little fact.

TequilaChaser · « **Reply #13 on:** October 13, 2005, 10:10:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by OOZ662

Aces High automatically drys the AUX tank first because of this, and no gas is loaded into it unless 100% internal fuel is taken.

actually, At 75% fuel load it loads around 10%+/- in the AUX tank

and is good enough for taking off and get a lil alt before switching back to the wing tanks ( P51D anyways)

just to clear it up