Author Topic: IL-2... Interesting (Read 1842 times)

Serapis · « **Reply #30 on:** July 13, 2001, 08:48:00 AM »

From my observations, .50 cal tracers go down range straight (hopefully in short bursts)and without the heavy "rocket trails" in AH. I have seen the trails in various gun camera film (RAF? or Luft.?)but not in RL -- as far as I can remember

Maybe it was an old phosporous compound. When they hit something the round (or most likely just the phosphor) frequently "ricoches" up in the air.

I did see a gun firing where the barrel was shot out. The rounds spiraled down range much like the rail gun effect from Quake 2, only much faster and tighter.

Charon

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #31 on:** July 13, 2001, 08:54:00 AM »

The smoke trails are left by the burning phosphorous. Yes, the AH smoke trails are wrong.. they aren't big enough and don't spiral.

The spiral is formed by the fact that bullets/tracers spin down the grooves of the gun barrell so that the bullets maintain a straight flight path.
-SW

Serapis · « **Reply #32 on:** July 13, 2001, 11:16:00 AM »

Personally, I never saw ANY smoke trails when firing .50s (my main weapon on the M-113), just smoke from the cartridges. We even lit up a full belt of tracers on occasion (not a good thing to do really, but WTH) and it looked like a laser

At night, though, you could see unburnt powder grains floating back down the barrel and sparking and crackling.

The spiral I talk about was the exception, not the rule, and came from a barrel that had been burned out to the point where there were barely any groves left – a smoothbore M2

The round itself visibly began to corkscrew as soon as it left the barrel and continued in ever wider spirals as it went down range -- a radius (hope its the right term) of several feet or more in the spiral. I still can't figure out how the various forces interacted to create this effect, but then I'm a writer and not a mathmatician.

Charon

[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: Charon ]

Staga · « **Reply #33 on:** July 13, 2001, 12:31:00 PM »

Uh I'm shamed: I can remember only four last digits from my RK's serial-number...

Thought I guess they're not going wake me up in middle of the night and ask questions like that after 13 years in "reserve"...

Serapis · « **Reply #34 on:** July 13, 2001, 01:57:00 PM »

My use of ANY was perhaps a bit too extreme where smoke trails are concerned. In thinking about it a lot, and doing some offline shooting and looking at a few films, very light smoke trails (as seen by the firer) may not be too far off.

Still, the only time smoke trails ever registered to me mentally when firing the weapon was when the phosphorous would occasionally dislodge from the round and go bouncing around. What set me going, I suppose, was the heavy appearence of smoke I sometimes see when others are firing at D 1+ from my aircraft.

Charon

Jigster · « **Reply #35 on:** July 13, 2001, 08:00:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SWulfe:
The smoke trails are left by the burning phosphorous. Yes, the AH smoke trails are wrong.. they aren't big enough and don't spiral.

The spiral is formed by the fact that bullets/tracers spin down the grooves of the gun barrell so that the bullets maintain a straight flight path.
-SW

Actually, they spin to keep from tumbling

~Caligula~ · « **Reply #36 on:** July 14, 2001, 04:31:00 AM »

I belive thare are different kind of tracers.Some are lit up,some will only trail smoke.
there`s a guncam film of a RAF (it`s from cockpit,I dunno wether it`s spit or hurc)fighter shooting at a formation of He111s.
I saw it a million times,and I can`t see no tracer bullets,only smoke trailing the bullets.
Il2`s tracers are the closest I`ve seen so far to the guncam films,but they`re still not perfect.Hopefully they ill fix em up by the time it`s released.

Serapis · « **Reply #37 on:** July 14, 2001, 09:50:00 AM »

I've seen that too Caligula, and also on some Korean war footage (high alt F-86)where the trails showed up well. At the same time I've see gun camera footage with virtually no smoke and the jittery tracers from the vibrating camera that SWolfe spoke about. Maybe heavy trails has something to do with atmospheric conditions, or the use of incendary rounds, which I don't believe were linked when I was firing (ball and tracer only). Still, certainly not a major issue in any case.

Charon

PapaH · « **Reply #38 on:** July 21, 2001, 07:16:00 AM »

Two observations:

1) I don't think I've ever been in a BB with so many people who have (or have had) first hand knowledge of automatic weapons. Draw your own conclusions, but I think that's pretty funny, in a cool sort of way!

2) In my minds eye, reveiwing a lifetime of guncam footage from WW2, I can remember both effects...smoke AND/OR bouncing tracers caused by vibration...it seems to me subjectively that maybe ambient light level in flight would have a LOT to do with how those trails appear to a camera. But I guess the crux of it is this...some of us ( a few) have firsthand eyeball experience of tracers coming out of nearby wingtips at altitude in combat. Part (I think) of the programmer magic is maybe not always perfect realism, but our EXPECTATION of what that reality is? See what I mean?

But my inner twelve year old says,"Take out the Thunderbolt Story video RIGHT NOW, and just enjoy the stuff blowing up in the countryside below."

Hehehhee

PapaH

Swager · « **Reply #39 on:** July 21, 2001, 09:28:00 AM »

great film!

Good stuff!