Originally posted by lazs2
rpm and airhead... the indians don't live on islands or even separate countries with borders... If you want to make them separate countries then that is fine with me... everyone should need visas to go there and the indians should need visas to get out.
It is in their best interest to become a part of the U.S. if we were to become completely separate nations... the projects you talk about rpm.. (I did some work on reservation buildings) that work... do you think it was paid for buy the citizens of that indian nation? The fruits of their advanced agriculture and manufacturing process?
Nope... they are hopeless at anything but vice. That is what they are reduced to. Pimps for vice... I expect drugs and prostitution to be another money maker for em in the future when we stop protecting their gambling and allow the real gambling pros in.
lazs
The first thing I want to address is this idea of generalization, your quote
the are hopeless at anything but vice maybe you've seen that at the rez you worked at, but you cant say that's true for all rez's, because it doesn't describe the reservation I live on, its true drug and alcohol abuse is a major problem in our communities, but u cant say one shoe size fits all, metaphorically speaking.
As far as us becoming part of the U.S. I thought we already were lol, but seriously this sovereignty thing should be sorted out, as far as i know it, as long as you don't except federal assistance "I.E. federal grants" then theoretically you are sovereign like another country, though theirs really nothing except bad PR from stopping the government from imposing eminent domain, and taking the land by force if they wanted to make a stink about it, like say if they wanted to build a highway or military base, or for whatever reason wanted the land. I haven't heard of a case like that out hear in California, but theoretically its possible.
Now back to the ones that do accept federal grants, like my tribe. My rez is on federal trust land, held in trust by the feds for my particular tribe, we can govern our selves as long as our constitution fits within the guidelines of the U.S. constitution. different reservations may have a a slightly different setup, but in general this is how I understand it too be. The BIA "Bureau of Indian Affairs" is responsible for overseeing all grants, and making sure all the legal stuff is in order, "they are our land lords" though they don't easily admit it.
You also say
"taking their land away? You are aware that those peace loving hippies were slaughtering each other over land before we got there?"
Don't know were you got the idea them ol timers were peace loving hippies, they were just people, and yes we were killing each other in tribal warfare, any idiot could have figured that out. There was a place for diplomacy and for warfare and for the rules of engagement, it was different for each tribe, it was an etiquette, it was not a free for all slaughter house, or elts this land truly would have been vacant. Instead the outsiders who came to this continent encountered tens of thousands of Indian bands all throughout this land. Our moral compass and bible, were held in our ceremony's, passed down from generation too generation, which was given too us from god almighty himself, who gave people everywhere a set of rules and a way to live, within their ceremony's. We are just people, good bad and everything in between, but however we treated each other a long time ago, it still does not justify what was done to indian people, by a country that at its core holds respect for human rights and freedom in such high regard.
You say again
"You are also aware that indians for the most part had no concept of land ownership and the person who could take it owned it.... we played by their rules."
Ha, yeah justify it some more why don't ya, I think it was more like share and share alike accept the visitors didn't want to leave, and they kept multiplying, wasn't much we could do about it if we wanted too, take any action against it and you got treated to a massacre at dawn courtesy of the U.S. Cavalry, or local militia, though the local militia didn't really need much of a reason to burn and pillage, it seemed to be a pass time.
You again
"you do know that the tribes that did claim ownership were most often bartered out of their land and that either they, or another tribe would not recognize the agreement. We played their rules..."
Bartered, riiiaggght, yeah they sometimes did barter like that, it usually involved an indian agent getting the local elders drunk, then getting some form of agreement out of it, or just flat out forging a sign of agreemant, who was going too stop them from doing that? the law ha they were just indians
it didnt matter too anyone.
And again
"For the most part... they were murdering, torturing savages who were their own worst enemies... they destroyed any land they stayed on and when it got to barren or hunted out they moved to the next patch... only their barbaric medical practices, tribal warfare and infant mortality kept them from killing the entire continent."
Wow, such strong words, "ya hear that grandma ya aint nothing but a murdering torturing savage, and your you own worst enemy..." as far as I know it wasn't the Sioux who almost wiped out the buffalo, "ok so we might have wiped out the mamoth's of america, but common did you really want them big things in your back yard garden lol." We didn't poison the ground and water and air with pesticides and crap with names you can hardly pronounce, that cause cancer birth defects and other nasty stuff, or fill the air with soot, from thousands of factories. My tribe's main food source was acorns "and know dont pick an acorn up off the ground and eat it, it has to be leached first" but there were other foods available at different times of the year, so you had to move around, for one to survive, two too let the area regenerate so u didnt deplete it for next year, three family tie's are a big part of our culture, some years a family would stay with the husbands kin, the next the wifes kin. Now some tribes got into agriculture and had some fairly permanent settlements, though i'm not as familiar with there culture as I am with mine, would have to ask them for the finer points of it, the ups and downs of agricultural life, so to speak. I'll tell you what, them ol timers had some good stuff for all manner of new world illness, I.E. stuff we were familar with, why would'nt we be, we've been here for thousands of years, I think simple trial and error would have turned out some pretty nifty cures, stuff that could have helped people even today. unfortunetly alot of it was lost. Now the stuff that was brought over from the old world, didnt really have anything for it.
I see you live in Dixon CA, you live within my peoples tribal territory, unless you have lived in our community or have none our people, I just don't see how you can make such blanket comments like you have. The problems in indian country, are neither hear nor there, it takes people coming from both sides of the fence to come together for the common good to solve them, unfortunately the system isn't conducive to folks like that. So we just put one foot on front of the next and try too live as good a live as we can, just like everyone elts on this planet.
Peace out dudejavascript:smilie(':aok')
aok lol
