Paris is looking like Iraq

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Weird Boroda I could swear that I frequently read news about breadlines in soviet russia - and I was born in the early 70's. Or maybe that was just propaganda? Or maybe it was Boroda's MOTHER that stood in the breadline all days? LOL. Then again Borodas family was a priviledged one if I recall right his father being a high ranking military officer who certainly got several perks others didn't receive. Then again maybe Soviet time was really how you see it:

 There was no government level corruption, industrial productivity was 100% and the state had plenty of money. People were happily singing party approved songs even after they were being ratted by family members and sent to gulags.

I guess people had everything so great during soviet regime that they got so fed up with having no problems that they started a revolution. There was no government level corruption, industrial productivity was 100% and the state had plenty of money.

Then, after the revolution, capitalists quickly destroyed all the jobs, ruined the economy AND polluted 90% of inhabited soil in a couple weeks. Correct me where I'm wrong Boroda.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by NUKE
Yeah, it happened for a couple a of years in the 30's in America, as opposed to happening from the 30's through the end of Soviet times, at least

Yes, such things happened in USSR in 1941-47, when a country was at war and laid in ruins. After industrial and agricultural production reached pre-war level in 1947 (it took only two years to literally build everything again) - there was no starvation in USSR.

I wonder what could happen in the US if, like Russia, it was at war in 1914-22 (in 1918-22 - all over the country), with all the industry destroyed, then - building everything from nothing in 15 years, then again 4 years of war that destroyed the whole country and took 20+ million lives, and again complete reconstruction in 2 years.

[NUKE]

That's true Boroda, and I agree. The US is lucky and has not had to bear that burdon.

[NUKE]

Actually, the US is lucky and I thank God for it. We are oceans away from 98% of our threats. No nation could hope to invade us.

We are no better than any other nation in history, but we are more fortunate than most.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

What about Canadians NUKE? Err.. I take that back.

The mexicans are slowly invading your country from within as inevitably as Global warming progresses. So really you're not oceans away from threats, you have one huge one as border neighbour. Just as we do.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Weird Boroda I could swear that I frequently read news about breadlines in soviet russia - and I was born in the early 70's. Or maybe that was just propaganda? Maybe Soviet time was really how you see it:

 There was no government level corruption, industrial productivity was 100% and the state had plenty of money. People were happily singing party approved songs even after they were being ratted by family members and sent to gulags.

I guess people had everything so great during soviet regime that they got so fed up with having no problems that they started a revolution. There was no government level corruption, industrial productivity was 100% and the state had plenty of money.

Then, after the revolution, capitalists quickly destroyed all the jobs, ruined the economy AND polluted 90% of inhabited soil in a couple weeks. Correct me where I'm wrong Boroda.

Well, it's again not that easy.

We had many good things in Soviet times. Unfortunately - the "revolution" (that in fact was nothing but treason and spreading enemy propaganda on our own expense) was a result of complete misunderstanding of so-called "capitalism" by 90% of the population. I was among that happy idiots who traded free medical treatment for chewing-gum and coca-cola.

USSR simply couldn't afford arms race with a nation that didn't see war for 150 years. It is obvious that planned economy is much more efficient then "free market", I said that USSR reached pre-war level in two years. If we didn't have to take part in arms race - we could live much better then any nation on Earth.

About "gulags" - well, every state fights it's enemies, and people who were in prison for political crimes in the 70s should better be kept there - they are still enemies of Russia.

Another thing that you have to understand: noone except Russians needs strong prospering Russia. US don't need a "free and democratic" Russia, it needs it weak and starving. So it goes. Alexander III, the only Emperor that didn't wage wars, said: "Russia has only two allies: it's Army and Navy".

[Boroda]

Forgot to say: we had a lot of bad things in Soviet times too, but they are as hard for you to understand as for Soviet people to understand "unemployment", "inflation" or "homeless people"

[Flit]

So you believe the russia was rebuilt in 2 years after the end of WW2 ? If so, how many lives were lost as a result of the forced labor and minimal rations ?
 O never mind, it doesnt matter that those people were what we call here in the west "slave labor".
  You really need to get out and get informed Boroda

[MrRiplEy[H]]

So you think that the bubble wouldn't have burst finally? That you could have continued to live your life and support the nation with technology dated 40 years back?

So you think that the foolish communists who immigrated to russia to build a new great workers country should still be locked in gulags simply for having second thoughts and trying to un-immigrate back home?

How many DDR escapees should be shot again on or under the wall in your opinnion? Clearly they were guilty of serious crimes against the nation.

[Flit]

Originally posted by Boroda
Well, it's again not that easy.

We had many good things in Soviet times. Unfortunately - the "revolution" (that in fact was nothing but treason and spreading enemy propaganda on our own expense) was a result of complete misunderstanding of so-called "capitalism" by 90% of the population. I was among that happy idiots who traded free medical treatment for chewing-gum and coca-cola.

USSR simply couldn't afford arms race with a nation that didn't see war for 150 years. It is obvious that planned economy is much more efficient then "free market", I said that USSR reached pre-war level in two years. If we didn't have to take part in arms race - we could live much better then any nation on Earth.

About "gulags" - well, every state fights it's enemies, and people who were in prison for political crimes in the 70s should better be kept there - they are still enemies of Russia.

Another thing that you have to understand: noone except Russians needs strong prospering Russia. US don't need a "free and democratic" Russia, it needs it weak and starving. So it goes. Alexander III, the only Emperor that didn't wage wars, said: "Russia has only two allies: it's Army and Navy".

 Are saying that the US had'nt seen a war in 150 years?

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Boroda
Well, it's again not that easy.

USSR simply couldn't afford arms race with a nation that didn't see war for 150 years. It is obvious that planned economy is much more efficient then "free market", I said that USSR reached pre-war level in two years. If we didn't have to take part in arms race - we could live much better then any nation on Earth.

 

The US is one reason why you even exist today. We have seen and fought wars from the begining of our existance. Your "planned" economy was a joke.

Why did you take part in the arms race? We ( US ) took part in the arms race and STILL live better than most of the world.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

As a sidenote Boroda, nothing would please me more than to see a Russia so prosperous that it never needed to invade another country again or spread its crime across the borders.

I'm really wishing that our neighbour giant will be one day a place where I can go to visit cool places and shopping without fear of being bullied by a corrupt police force or the mob. I really wish your industry will develop technically so that it will pollute less. In fact, I recently talked to an engineer who is currently building the St.Petersburg waste water purifying plant and he told me that this partly EU/Finnish funded project has been successful. Wtg!

So now a couple millions of persons will not dump unpurified wastewater to the Gulf of Finland anymore.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Boroda
It is obvious that planned economy is much more efficient then "free market", I said that USSR reached pre-war level in two years. If we didn't have to take part in arms race - we could live much better then any nation on Earth.

How is it obvious that a planned economy is more efficient? You had an arms race with the "less efficient" American economy, and lost by a HUGE margine.

Who forced you into an arms race?

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Flit
So you believe the russia was rebuilt in 2 years after the end of WW2 ? If so, how many lives were lost as a result of the forced labor and minimal rations ?
 O never mind, it doesnt matter that those people were what we call here in the west "slave labor".
  You really need to get out and get informed Boroda

Yes, I am living here, all my family lives here for hundreeds of years, and someone who watched a show on history channel and read a comic book calls me unimformed. True Western approach.

US made plans of attacking USSR since 1946, and they were frightened and surprised when in 1949 they discovered that USSR already has a Bomb. Reconstruction was a matter of survival. Do or die. Just like before WWII.

[Flit]

Originally posted by NUKE
How is it obvious that a planned economy is more efficient? You had an arms race with the "less efficient" American economy, and lost by a HUGE margine.

Who forced you into an arms race?

 According to Boroda, it was a country that had'nt seen war in 150 years, so that leaves out the US:D