Bomber guns

[JB42]

So i'm a little slow, but it just occured to me what the true problem with buff guns are. I will grant the argument that in RL it was highly probable that more than one set of guns were focused on a single attacker. The problem is, with the current setup, all those guns are essential operated by a single person. In RL each gun position had to evaluate their own gun solution. This probably led to a lot of missed shots. Not so in AH now. They all fire to the same gun solution. When TOD rolls out I see this as being it's major down fall. Not many AHers are going to want to lose their avatar to robot gunners all firing at the same place regardless of their different position and POV.

[Krusty]

Actually, a player at each gun should be more effective in general. There were often times when the fire control person would say over the comms "Not yet.. hold your fire... NOW!" and all guns would fire at once.

In AH, however, the guns all converge at 500yds, so that most guns miss depending on the range -- in real life with a person at each gun, the convergence would adjust for whatever range the target is at.

So it's a mixed bag of things... I think it'll be fine for TOD. I just hope the AI bombers don't have good gunners. I can deal with a player gunner. They usually blow their shots until I can kill 'em. But AI controlled guns... them's the unknown variable... I hope it's nothing like the otto BS of WB.

[JB42]

Points well taken Krusty, but i don't think you see where i'm coming from. Even if the fire control master orders them to all fire at the same time, that doesn't mean that any of them could hit the broad side of a barn. For example, if the order where to be given as the target lay 200 yds off the tail, thats 200 yds for the tail gunner but somewhere around 210 yards for the top turret. What if the tail gunner aims assuming the target is at 190 yds and the top turret thinks it's at 230 yds. They both miss. Hypothetical and maybe a bit extreme, but both gunner miss. Not in AH, they both aim at the EXACT same distance until the target is hit, then shortly there after, shredded.

Also, i don't think there is a "real" convergence for buff guns. I have been shredded at 1000 yds. If they converge at 500, then the x spread of the convergence would mean only one or two guns would hit me. I can safely say, that is not the case lol.

[Krusty]

Well the same goes for the system in AH: Even if, hypothetically, 2 out of 4 positions can hit a  target rear and to the side (Say waist and ball turret actually know how to shoot) but the other two don't, in AH it's not so easy, and if you miss the shot you miss from every gun. At least it's consistent. When you hit you hit, but when you miss you miss big.

EDIT: It doesn't matter how far the top position thinks the enemy is, compared to the tail, because each is independently going for the best shot he knows how to make. See what I mean?

[Booz]

If Ottos fired and tracked like the McHale's navy field and carrier defense ground crews we have would you be happy?

[SFCHONDO]

I kill bombers 10 to 1. I don't see any problem with the bomber guns.

[IownU]

lol and i can take down planes with my bombers starting at 1k:O

[airbumba]

Not to mention that I doubt they'd open up on a plane that flew between two bombers for fear of hitting their own planes. Ok given that if you, as a fighter, ever found yourself that close, you'd probably already be in a heap of trouble.

[gatt]

JB, use hispanos hizookas (better 4 of them) and see what a difference it makes ... you can even fire at 1000yds.

[FiLtH]

Ya the guns are easy, and dont involve all the intricate problems of real air to air gunnery, but on the flip side, the fighter planes dont either, so it all comes out in the wash.

[rshubert]

Originally posted by JB42
Points well taken Krusty, but i don't think you see where i'm coming from. Even if the fire control master orders them to all fire at the same time, that doesn't mean that any of them could hit the broad side of a barn. For example, if the order where to be given as the target lay 200 yds off the tail, thats 200 yds for the tail gunner but somewhere around 210 yards for the top turret. What if the tail gunner aims assuming the target is at 190 yds and the top turret thinks it's at 230 yds. They both miss. Hypothetical and maybe a bit extreme, but both gunner miss. Not in AH, they both aim at the EXACT same distance until the target is hit, then shortly there after, shredded.

Also, i don't think there is a "real" convergence for buff guns. I have been shredded at 1000 yds. If they converge at 500, then the x spread of the convergence would mean only one or two guns would hit me. I can safely say, that is not the case lol.

You're not talking about any significant difference in point of aim for a straight-on shot with a .50, jb42.  Lead is a different issue, of course.

I don't have the ballistics tables handy, but I would bet that there isn't an inch of difference in bullet trajectory for a .50 between 100 and 400 yards.

[Stang]

Originally posted by JB42
Not so in AH now. They all fire to the same gun solution. When TOD rolls out I see this as being it's major down fall. Not many AHers are going to want to lose their avatar to robot gunners all firing at the same place regardless of their different position and POV.

This has been and will be my biggest concern about ToD.

[hubsonfire]

In a situation where the con is approaching from the rear, the bomber has a tremendous advantage. I've read through HT's thoughts on multiple gunners, and understand no one would want to ride along for hours sitting in the waist gun position, so I can accept that we need some compromises. However, the ability of the bombers to pick off single targets moving at 300mph + at ranges the fighter is not effective, is a bit too much.

The current bomber guns could easily be the death of ToD. Recoil and buffeting or something along those lines would be a great solution, I think.

[Voldemort]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
[B no one would want to ride along for hours sitting in the waist gun position,[/B]

We did it in Air Warrior.

[gatt]

I miss the OTTO solution. I.e., AI firing in a realistic way, not thru fuselages, not all togheter but every bomber of the vic to the closest fighter.