Author Topic: Navajo Scouts in Little Big Horn  (Read 574 times)

Offline navajoboy

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Navajo Scouts in Little Big Horn
« on: November 02, 2005, 06:12:29 PM »
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Thank you very much, Nav, for your time sir and I am as well sorry about the thread hijack.  I would like to know more about both and have a couple of books that you might like to read on the Lakota day by day experience for the 4 years before littlebighorn and on through wounded knee.  The author is extremely detailed almost to the point of overkill, which is what intertested me.  If I am not mistaken, there were some navajo that scouted for custer and the 7th back then.  Oooops! (new thread needed) Sorry Nomak!


Now im not sure of that happened or not.  I do know that the Navajos had contact with the Lakota people. The navajos were mainly in the Mountains of New Mexico and in Arizona. I dont recall any history of travel into the Colorado area. The colorado area was mainly occupied by the Utes (navajo NME!) So if there was Navajo Scouts, that would be new to me.  I believe the scouts were either Pawnee or Arikara. Im not sure about that.
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Offline BBQ_Bob

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Re: Navajo Scouts in Little Big Horn
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2005, 06:17:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by navajoboy
Now im not sure of that happened or not.  I do know that the Navajos had contact with the Lakota people. The navajos were mainly in the Mountains of New Mexico and in Arizona. I dont recall any history of travel into the Colorado area. The colorado area was mainly occupied by the Utes (navajo NME!) So if there was Navajo Scouts, that would be new to me.  I believe the scouts were either Pawnee or Arikara. Im not sure about that.


And don't forget the most famous scout, Bloody Knife, he was a Crow.
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Offline Krusher

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Re: Re: Navajo Scouts in Little Big Horn
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2005, 06:52:22 PM »
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Originally posted by BBQ_Bob
And don't forget the most famous scout, Bloody Knife, he was a Crow.


Interesting !

Offline SkyRock

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Re: Navajo Scouts in Little Big Horn
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2005, 07:03:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by navajoboy
Now im not sure of that happened or not.  I do know that the Navajos had contact with the Lakota people. The navajos were mainly in the Mountains of New Mexico and in Arizona. I dont recall any history of travel into the Colorado area. The colorado area was mainly occupied by the Utes (navajo NME!) So if there was Navajo Scouts, that would be new to me.  I believe the scouts were either Pawnee or Arikara. Im not sure about that.

I'm going to go back and read.   I am almost positive it was a navajo but just might have been an Apache.  When I find it I will post it here.

Triton28 - "...his stats suggest he has a healthy combination of suck and sissy!"

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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Navajo Scouts in Little Big Horn
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2005, 08:04:46 PM »
The reenactment is done according to notes from the Crow tribal historian, and it is generally acknowledged that Custer's scouts were Crow.  I would have believed Ute as well, as they worked quite a bit as scouts for the military.  I seriously doubt any Navajo would have been scouting for the military, maybe a few renegades perhaps, but it would be a stretch.  Consider that in 1876 when Custer was killed at the Little Big Horn, less than 10 years had passed since the Navajo were allowed to return to their homes in the 4 corners area, and the attacks and hardships they endured during the fights rounding them up, the "long walk", and the fact that the campaign to round them up had been done with the assistance of the Utes who are traditional enemies of the Navajo........

I seriously doubt they were feeling at all generous towards the US cavalry.  Regardless of what they paid, a Navajo would have to have been "acting like he had no family", as they say, to take a job working for the soldiers.

 

Here's a snip from the national park service website.

Quote
Ahead of the main column, Custer's 6 Crow and 39 Arikara Indian Scouts found the massive village. In the Valley of the Little Bighorn River, the Seventh Cavalry and their Indian allies attacked the village of 8,000 to 10,000 people, on June 25th,1876. After the battle was over, 263 7th Cavalrymen lay dead, including George Custer. 350 7th Cavalrymen survived.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2005, 08:09:21 PM by StarOfAfrica2 »

Offline Yeager

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Navajo Scouts in Little Big Horn
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2005, 08:13:06 PM »
"Custer Died for your Sins"
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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Navajo Scouts in Little Big Horn
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2005, 08:15:25 PM »
Well, Pride is one of the 7 deadly sins.

Offline SkyRock

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Navajo Scouts in Little Big Horn
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2005, 08:40:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
The reenactment is done according to notes from the Crow tribal historian, and it is generally acknowledged that Custer's scouts were Crow.  I would have believed Ute as well, as they worked quite a bit as scouts for the military.  I seriously doubt any Navajo would have been scouting for the military, maybe a few renegades perhaps, but it would be a stretch.  Consider that in 1876 when Custer was killed at the Little Big Horn, less than 10 years had passed since the Navajo were allowed to return to their homes in the 4 corners area, and the attacks and hardships they endured during the fights rounding them up, the "long walk", and the fact that the campaign to round them up had been done with the assistance of the Utes who are traditional enemies of the Navajo........

I seriously doubt they were feeling at all generous towards the US cavalry.  Regardless of what they paid, a Navajo would have to have been "acting like he had no family", as they say, to take a job working for the soldiers.

 
Yes, this sounds more like it.  I know that in the book, the author detailed a navajo man but he may have just been a branch of the main story.   for the info

Here's a snip from the national park service website.

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Offline navajoboy

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Navajo Scouts in Little Big Horn
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2005, 09:35:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
The reenactment is done according to notes from the Crow tribal historian, and it is generally acknowledged that Custer's scouts were Crow.  I would have believed Ute as well, as they worked quite a bit as scouts for the military.  I seriously doubt any Navajo would have been scouting for the military, maybe a few renegades perhaps, but it would be a stretch.  Consider that in 1876 when Custer was killed at the Little Big Horn, less than 10 years had passed since the Navajo were allowed to return to their homes in the 4 corners area, and the attacks and hardships they endured during the fights rounding them up, the "long walk", and the fact that the campaign to round them up had been done with the assistance of the Utes who are traditional enemies of the Navajo........

I seriously doubt they were feeling at all generous towards the US cavalry.  Regardless of what they paid, a Navajo would have to have been "acting like he had no family", as they say, to take a job working for the soldiers.

 

Here's a snip from the national park service website.



Very good information. Yes around the time of the little big horn, most of the Navajo's were enslaved at the Bosque Redondo.  I highly doubt Apaches would be involved because of their own war campaigns that continued into the early 1900s.


I use to live in WhiteShield, ND. There is an old Scout Cemetery out west  near the small town. Now just to let you know, WhiteShield is kinda the homefront or HQ for the Arikaras or what is left of them. I believe my wife is a small part Arikara (mainly claims Hunkpapa Lakota), this would explain an inner conflict that she has. But enough about my wife, here is a link to the location and some information on it.

http://www.visitmcleancounty.com/tourism/scoutcemetary.html
« Last Edit: November 03, 2005, 09:45:22 AM by navajoboy »
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Offline StarOfAfrica2

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Navajo Scouts in Little Big Horn
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2005, 11:14:03 AM »
Have the two of you looked into verifying her connections?  The Arikaras (which I believe were an offshoot of the Pawnee) had been around for a loooooong time by US standards when it came to dealing with the plains Indians.  Even so, not alot is really known about their true history because they just aren't (or weren't) very open about that sort of thing.  I believe one book I read on them said that for most of their existence, they had no one they could call ally or friend.  They were traditional enemies of pretty much every plains Indian tribe in existence, as well as whites.  Once settled on a reservation, they took up scouting just so they could get a chance to keep fighting their enemies.  

Of course most of the cultural books on them are acknowledged nowadays to be wrong, but I think they got that part pretty clear.  :)

Offline megadud

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Navajo Scouts in Little Big Horn
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2005, 11:21:31 AM »
so you don't root for utah?

i wouldn't either the utes suck this year :aok

Offline navajoboy

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« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2005, 11:56:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Have the two of you looked into verifying her connections?  The Arikaras (which I believe were an offshoot of the Pawnee) had been around for a loooooong time by US standards when it came to dealing with the plains Indians.  Even so, not alot is really known about their true history because they just aren't (or weren't) very open about that sort of thing.  I believe one book I read on them said that for most of their existence, they had no one they could call ally or friend.  They were traditional enemies of pretty much every plains Indian tribe in existence, as well as whites.  Once settled on a reservation, they took up scouting just so they could get a chance to keep fighting their enemies.  

Of course most of the cultural books on them are acknowledged nowadays to be wrong, but I think they got that part pretty clear.  :)


Wow that would make alot of sense if they didnt have an ally. I believe today the have conflicts with the existing members (Hidatsa, Mandan) of their reservation. That would be an interesting read. Which book is it?  Oh and yes i believe the Pawnee and Arikara were from the same group of people. I've never seen any Pawnee so i cant do a comparsion.
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Offline navajoboy

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« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2005, 12:00:44 PM »
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Originally posted by megadud
so you don't root for utah?

i wouldn't either the utes suck this year :aok


Good question! Yeah I like a variety of different schools. UTAH, WASHINGTON, FLORIDA STATE, ARIZONA, OHIO STATE, GEORGIA, LSU so it all depends on who is playing them. When Arizona played them a few weeks ago i was for Arizona.  But when UTAH played in the Fiesta Bowl, i was for them.  Who you for?
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Offline BBQ_Bob

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Navajo Scouts in Little Big Horn
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2005, 12:07:46 PM »
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Originally posted by navajoboy
Wow that would make alot of sense if they didnt have an ally. I believe today the have conflicts with the existing members (Hidatsa, Mandan) of their reservation. That would be an interesting read. Which book is it?  Oh and yes i believe the Pawnee and Arikara were from the same group of people. I've never seen any Pawnee so i cant do a comparsion.


The Arikara as I was told were a band of Pawnees that more or less came to the Mandans for protecton from the Sioux and stayed in North Dakota, Every year in White Shield there is the Arikara Celebration (pow wow) and usually a group of Pawnee's from Pawnee, Oklahoma come up for it. There still are some close ties there.
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Offline navajoboy

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« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2005, 01:10:39 PM »
oh and just a little more infomation. I found this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Knife

very interesting discussion we got going here.
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