George Bush's Statement of Faith

[cpxxx]

On the original point, I saw the relevant TV programme just a few nights ago and listened to what the Palestinian leader said and most importantly the tone of his comments. My impression was that GWB didn't say God TOLD him to invade Afghanistan or invade Iraq or help give the Palestinian people a country of their own but that God WANTED him to do all of the above. In effect God was on his side and presumably for the benefit of a Palestinian and a muslim, Bush wanted to emphasise his good faith on the matter of Palestinian autonomy. It is nothing new for any political or military leader to believe God is on their side.

Naturally if I had an anti Bush agenda, as many do. I would deliberately spin the comments to make it seem that Bush is a raving religious maniac.  
Plenty did.

But in truth the programme was more subtlely damming of Bush's handling of the Palestinian/Israeli issue even though it was all in good faith. The conclusion of the programme was that Ariel Sharon manipulated the whole situation and duped the Americans into recognising Israel's right to the occupied territories of the West Bank in return for giving up a few settlements in Gaza. God it seems is actually in Sharon's corner.

On the tangental point of torture.  
Look, if only terrorists were tortured. Who would complain? The problem is that torture is nearly always applied to all prisoners guilty or not. A hardened fanatic probably won't talk and innocents have nothing to reveal. Torture is as damaging to the person doing it as the prisoner.  
Just because someone is suspected and arrested does not mean they are guilty. Any country that applies torture no longer has the right to call itself civilised. It's wrong and counterproductive.
What is going to be the next bad idea? Take Iraqis hostage and shoot them every time an American soldier is killed or make them ride on US military vehicles as human shield? I'll bet someone somewhere has suggested that plan.
 

[weaselsan]

Originally posted by lada
They will FIGHT with honour, because they are evil (and dont try to mention that they are doing something wrong... god love them.. if they were doing something wrong, god will tell them)...

God bless them

Is this Iranian Moron doing something wrong????
If putting a pair of ladies bloomers on a Terrorists head is torture, I'd love to put an extra large size on this idiot and give him a major wedgie.

Here

[indy007]

Originally posted by oboe
That means treat others as you want them to treat you - not treat them as they are treating you.

I understand exactly what it means. Treat people like you want to be treated, regardless of how they treat you. Moral absolutism is a good thing. It's a cornerstone of Christianity. However, in the conversation I was saying we shouldn't be applying judeo-christian morality while attempting to battle a wahabbi islamic problem, which has a very, very different set of morals they make their own decisions by.

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by cpxxx


On the tangental point of torture.  
Look, if only terrorists were tortured. Who would complain? The problem is that torture is nearly always applied to all prisoners guilty or not. A hardened fanatic probably won't talk and innocents have nothing to reveal. Torture is as damaging to the person doing it as the prisoner.  
Just because someone is suspected and arrested does not mean they are guilty. Any country that applies torture no longer has the right to call itself civilised. It's wrong and counterproductive.
What is going to be the next bad idea? Take Iraqis hostage and shoot them every time an American soldier is killed or make them ride on US military vehicles as human shield? I'll bet someone somewhere has suggested that plan.
 

What do you define as torture? Was stacking naked humans etc of Abu Ghareb torture in your book?



You ever read a book called the devils gaurd?

[oboe]

Originally posted by indy007
I understand exactly what it means. Treat people like you want to be treated, regardless of how they treat you. Moral absolutism is a good thing. It's a cornerstone of Christianity. However, in the conversation I was saying we shouldn't be applying judeo-christian morality while attempting to battle a wahabbi islamic problem, which has a very, very different set of morals they make their own decisions by.

Sorry, my mistake Indy - I must've misread the intent of your post then.

I have to say I think our morals must guide our behavior in all situations.   I don't think its much of a morality if we choose to employ it or disregard it depending on the situation.    I understand some may disagree with that, but it just doesn't seem right to me.

[Gunslinger]

this is quaint.  A bunch of guys arguing about torture that know neither modern day technics nor standard army field manual techniques.

Even the word torture has been thrown around way too loosley, I'd say many have been abused at best but peeling fingernails off with pliers isn't really common practice any more.

The best interrogation technique I've been esposed to was a simple shaken up coke can opened up by my nose while restrained on my back.  Would I call this torture....heck no.


In addition to say Bush supports torture because he wanted to veto the bill is asnine.  You can disagree with how it is written and still not be fore the opposite.

PS thanks for the info goon.  I doubt you wanted to have the thread spin this way but it's inevitable.

[GtoRA2]

Oh come on Guns! SInce when do you have to know much about something to talk about it?

If that was the case there wouldn't be much conversation about anything!




Still you are right about the Hijack, on the up side, it stayed very civil!;)

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by GtoRA2
Shouldn't the good guys put saving the lives of our people above all else?

....then what part of the guys makes them "good"?


It isn't black and white.  In the short term it might make sense of killing off half of the world population outside the US.  You remove half of the people and so one might think, half the threat.  Of course you would be all but garaunteeing that the other half would come calling, in one way or another.

What do you define as torture?

Beating someone to death is a good start.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by lada
This might be right place to ask questions.
I used to hear some rummors, that you can not take public office, if you dont belive in God in US.

Is it BS ?

Is religion mandatory at State run schools ?

Yes.

And eating moslem babies at noon on Ramadan is a requirement for political office.

Now if you'll excuse us, we must return to removing the eyes (with a hot poker) of kidnapped lebanese freedom fighters that most unfortunately (for them) looked upon the bare ankles of a jewess in a GQ magazine.

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by Thrawn
....then what part of the guys makes them "good"?


It isn't black and white.  In the short term it might make sense of killing off half of the world population outside the US.  You remove half of the people and so one might think, half the threat.  Of course you would be all but garaunteeing that the other half would come calling, in one way or another.





Beating someone to death is a good start.

Have we beaten any prisoners to death while torturing them?

[Nash]

Originally posted by lada
This might be right place to ask questions.
I used to hear some rummors, that you can not take public office, if you dont belive in God in US.

Is it BS ?

Is religion mandatory at State run schools ?

No. There have been many notable atheist politicians. Are you kidding? I just can't think of one.

Mandatory religion in schools? No again. This has never been an issue. I don't know where you're hearing this stuff.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by GtoRA2
Oh come on Guns! SInce when do you have to know much about something to talk about it?

If that was the case there wouldn't be much conversation about anything!




Still you are right about the Hijack, on the up side, it stayed very civil!;)

It's like this.  People throw this torture word around like it's candy nowadays because it hurts Bush....personally I could care less who it hurts except this.  To compare the torture that senetor Mcain and many others went through in vietnam to some of the abuse and interrogation that terrorist detainees go through.....Is like comparing the stalin purges to a company layoff.

[Hangtime]

stop torturing me.

oooooh... oooohhhhh... stooooop...

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by GtoRA2
Have we beaten any prisoners to death while torturing them?

...while torturing them?  Are you implying that beating someone to the point of death isn't torture?

[Sandman]

Originally posted by GtoRA2
Have we beaten any prisoners to death while torturing them?

Hard to say... I hear some of the prisons might be secret.