Author Topic: il2 guns (Read 1286 times)

toadkill · « **on:** November 11, 2005, 12:30:06 PM »

anyone know the secret, of the il2s cannons, like why they can take the panzer's turret out and i cant with the hurricane 2d(i am hitting it) hurry is 40mm and il2 is 23mm, is there some russian secret, like depleted uranium shells?(they did not exist in WW2)

im asking why its so effective not, not how you do it

Karnak · « **Reply #1 on:** November 11, 2005, 01:22:21 PM »

Much higher muzzle velocities and better ballistics on the rounds.

dedalos · « **Reply #2 on:** November 11, 2005, 01:35:20 PM »

I thought the 40mm was HE, no?

It is useless against GVs, even if I am wrong about the HE thing

Bronk · « **Reply #3 on:** November 11, 2005, 02:17:57 PM »

Ded the 40 mm is AP . Used on light armor it passes through unles you hit a vital spot. As for panzer turret I find i need 4 rounds to take it out same with engine.

Bronk

dedalos · « **Reply #4 on:** November 11, 2005, 02:47:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bronk
Ded the 40 mm is AP . Used on light armor it passes through unles you hit a vital spot. As for panzer turret I find i need 4 rounds to take it out same with engine.

Bronk

My bad. That brings up another question. The damage on GVs from AC is cumulative then? Its not where you hit but how many times you hit? That explains why the UL can do so mach damage (vlume of fire)

dedalos · « **Reply #5 on:** November 11, 2005, 02:48:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by dedalos
My bad. That brings up another question. The damage on GVs from AC is cumulative then? Its not where you hit but how many times you hit? That explains why the IL can do so mach damage (vlume of fire)

Karnak · « **Reply #6 on:** November 11, 2005, 02:58:29 PM »

Aircraft damage is cumulative. Armored GV damage requires a successful penetration and you may get it in one or you may never get it.

Tony Williams · « **Reply #7 on:** November 11, 2005, 05:38:29 PM »

The 40mm S Gun had better penetration than the 23mm VYa.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 11, 2005, 06:54:18 PM »

No Karnak, he's right. The total damage done to the tank is counted up regardless of whether or not the shots are penetrating.

I.E. If someone came along in a 110 and put a burst on a Panzer, they'd do a lot of damage, but wouldn't penetrate anything.

If a Hurri2d came along, it would put 2 shots in the roof and kill it. Though it would get an assist only because the total amount of damage of the 4 40's is nothing compared to the burst from the 110.

scott123 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 12, 2005, 06:09:31 AM »

I feel the 40 mm on the 2d is not modeled well,it was reported at the time that the pilots found this weapon more accurate than the rockets they used later on typhoons,I'm sure a 40 mm AP round would do at least as much damage as a 23 mm AP round,despite the diffrence in velocity.Also the yak 9T is more effective as a tank killer with it's single 37mm.They dropped the 2d because performance dropped off and they lost a lot to ground fire.I believe it was an effective tank killer,at the time.

If I'm wrong I'm sure you'll let me know.

KD303 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 12, 2005, 08:18:57 AM »

I know that in June 1942 No 6 Sqn attacked an armoured column of tanks and half-tracks in North Africa (can't remember where) leaving more than 15 vehicles destroyed for no loss and also in March 1943 a squadron of Hurricane IIds (6 squadron again, I think but I aint got time to check), operating in North Africa, destroyed around 30 Axis tanks in three and a half hours. There are other examples but these are the only ones I can think of just now. I have some footage on video of IIds attacking armoured columns and they appeared to be very effective. They 'walked' the .303s up to the target, then opened up with the cannon just as the Browning rounds reached the target. Also, the muzzle flashes were pretty rapid (faster than AH model?), and no, I wasn't mistaking the brownings' flashes for the Vickers'. I've heard that IId pilots had to point the nose down when firing the cannons because the nose tended to pitch up when they were fired. In real life it was certainly anything but useless against ground vehicles.

Tony Williams · « **Reply #11 on:** November 12, 2005, 02:35:46 PM »

The 40mm S gun was capable of penetrating any German tank up to and including the the Pz IV. It was not capable of dealing with the Tiger or Panther.

Interestingly, the Hurri IV (which had interchangeable RP and 40mm armament) remained in service in British-based squadrons until March 1944. It only just missed D-day, and I don't really know why - the 40mm guns were acknowledged as far more accurate than the RPs.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 12, 2005, 03:25:26 PM »

There's a difference between destroyed and killed in Game.

I can destroy a tank (I.E. Take out the engine or turret) with the Hurri2d in a single shot. However, the tank keeps rolling. In Real Life, it was not beneficial to stay in a tank that had no engine or no turret. Also, they didn't stay in tanks that didn't have tracks and stuff.

Not so in Aces High.

A single shot from an IL2 will hardly scratch a Tank. It's a burst that does damage. And even then you need to hit the right angles. And even then, the tank may be "Neutered" but still be rolling.

Karnak · « **Reply #13 on:** November 12, 2005, 05:14:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lasersailor184
No Karnak, he's right. The total damage done to the tank is counted up regardless of whether or not the shots are penetrating.

I.E. If someone came along in a 110 and put a burst on a Panzer, they'd do a lot of damage, but wouldn't penetrate anything.

If a Hurri2d came along, it would put 2 shots in the roof and kill it. Though it would get an assist only because the total amount of damage of the 4 40's is nothing compared to the burst from the 110.

I know that. I wasn't talking about who got the credit. I was talking about doing actual damage. In your example the Bf110 would have done little or no actual damage, but such put a whole bunch of points towards getting credit for something he can't actually do. The Hurri would do all the damage, but not enough points to get more than an assist.

KD303 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 14, 2005, 08:12:59 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tony Williams
Interestingly, the Hurri IV (which had interchangeable RP and 40mm armament) remained in service in British-based squadrons until March 1944. It only just missed D-day, and I don't really know why - the 40mm guns were acknowledged as far more accurate than the RPs.

The reason being that these squadrons, on the whole, had converted to Typhoons by this time as the Hurricane had reached the end of the road. Even before that, they were using rockets rather than the 40mm option in the UK. 137 and 184 squadrons used the MK IV into 1944 but with RPs. 184 in particular had success against V1 sites on the continent. By April 44, they'd all converted.