Neat stuff from grunts in Iraq

[bj229r]

Got this from another bbs I frequent--this is from 3 posts this gent made today:

Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 1776
Location: Los Angeles
   
 PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:12 pm    Post subject: Iraq Sit Rep, Our Weapons...    Reply with quote Back to top
I recently received an email from a friend of mine, a retired USMC First Shirt. His son is an E-5 NCO Grunt in the Corps, just returned from year in Iraq, recently re-upped for a burst of six and will be returning to Iraq at the first of next year. What follows is a portion of the "debriefing" he gave his father. It's lengthy, I realize, but much good stuff.

1) The M-16 rifle : Thumbs down. Chronic jamming problems with the
talcum powder like sand over there. The sand is everywhere. Jordan
says you feel filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M-4
carbine version is more popular because it's lighter and shorter, but it
has jamming problems also. They like the ability to mount the various
optical gunsights and weapons lights on the picattiny rails, but the
weapon itself is not great in a desert environment. They all hate the 5.56mm (.223) round. Poor
penetration on the cinderblock structure common over there and even
torso hits cant be reliably counted on to put the enemy down. Fun fact:
Random autopsies on dead insurgents shows a high level of opiate use.

2) The M243 SAW (squad assault weapon): .223 cal. Drum fed light
machine gun. Big thumbs down. Universally considered a piece of sh--.
Chronic jamming problems, most of which require partial disassembly.
(that's fun in the middle of a firefight).


3) The M9 Beretta 9mm: Mixed bag. Good gun, performs well in desert
environment; but they all hate the 9mm cartridge. The use of handguns
for self-defense is actually fairly common. Same old story on the 9mm:
Bad guys hit multiple times and still in the fight.

4) Mossberg 12ga. Military shotgun: Works well, used frequently for
clearing houses to good effect.

5) The M240 Machine Gun: 7.62 Nato (.308) cal. belt fed machine gun,
developed to replace the old M-60 (what a beautiful weapon that was!!).
Thumbs up. Accurate, reliable, and the 7.62 round puts 'em down.
Originally developed as a vehicle mounted weapon, more and more are
being dismounted and taken into the field by infantry. The 7.62 round
chews up the structure over there.

6) The M2 .50 cal heavy machine gun: Thumbs way, way up. "Ma deuce"
is still worth her considerable weight in gold. The ultimate fight
stopper, puts their dicks in the dirt every time. The most coveted
weapon in-theater.

7) The .45 pistol: Thumbs up. Still the best pistol round out there.
Everybody authorized to carry a sidearm is trying to get their hands on
one. With few exceptions, can reliably be expected to put 'em down with
a torso hit. The special ops guys (who are doing most of the pistol
work) use the HK military model and supposedly love it. The old
government model .45's are being re-issued en masse.

Cool The M-14: Thumbs up. They are being re-issued in bulk, mostly in a
modified version to special ops guys. Modifications include lightweight
Kevlar stocks and low power red dot or ACOG sights. Very reliable in
the sandy environment, and they love the 7.62 round.

9) The Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle: Thumbs way up. Spectacular range
and accuracy and hits like a freight train. Used frequently to take out
vehicle suicide bombers ( we actually stop a lot of them) and barricaded
enemy. Definitely here to stay.

10) The M24 sniper rifle: Thumbs up. Mostly in .308 but some in 300
win mag. Heavily modified Remington 700's. Great performance. Snipers
have been used heavily to great effect. Rumor has it that a marine
sniper on his third tour in Anbar province has actually exceeded Carlos
Hathcock's record for confirmed kills with OVER 100.

NEXT POST:

Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 1776
Location: Los Angeles
   
 PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:25 pm    Post subject: Iraq Sit Rep THEIR troops    Reply with quote Back to top
As mentioned in other threads, this info via USMC Grunt just returned from seeing heavy fighting in Iraq.

Their troops and tactics...

Who are the bad guys?:

Most of the carnage is caused by the Zarqawi Al Qaeda group. They
operate mostly in Anbar province (Fallujah and Ramadi). These are
mostly "foreigners", non-Iraqi Sunni Arab Jihadists from all over the
Muslim world (and Europe). Most enter Iraq through Syria (with, of
course, the knowledge and complicity of the Syrian govt.) , and then
travel down the "rat line" which is the trail of towns along the
Euphrates River that we've been hitting hard for the last few months.
Some are virtually untrained young Jihadists that often end up as
suicide bombers or in "sacrifice squads". Most, however, are hard core
terrorists from all the usual suspects (Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas etc.)
These are the guys running around murdering civilians en masse and
cutting heads off. The Chechens (many of whom are Caucasian), are
supposedly the most ruthless and the best fighters. (they have been
fighting the Russians for years). In the Baghdad area and south, most
of the insurgents are Iranian inspired (and led) Iraqi *****es. The
Iranian Shiia have been very adept at infiltrating the Iraqi local
govt.'s, the police forces and the Army. The have had a massive spy and
agitator
network there since the Iran-Iraq war in the early 80's. Most of the
Saddam loyalists were killed, captured or gave up long ago.


Bad Guy Tactics:

When they are engaged on an infantry level they get their tulips kicked
every time. Brave, but stupid. Suicidal Banzai-type charges were very
common earlier in the war and still occur. They will literally
sacrifice 8-10 man teams in suicide squads by sending them screaming and
firing Ak's and RPG's directly at our bases just to probe the defenses.
They get mowed down like grass every time. ( see the M2 and M240
above). Jordan's base was hit like this often. When engaged, they have
a tendency to flee to the same building, probably for what they think
will be a glorious last stand. Instead, we call in air and that's the
end of that more often than not. These hole-ups are referred to as Alpha
Whiskey Romeo's (Allah's Waiting Room). We have the laser guided
ground-air thing down to a science. The fast mover's, mostly Marine
F-18's, are taking an ever increasing toll on the enemy. When caught
out in the open, the helicopter gunships and AC-130 Spectre gunships cut
them to ribbons with cannon and rocket fire, especially at night.
Interestingly, artillery is hardly used at all. Fun fact: The enemy
death toll is supposedly between 45-50 thousand. That is why we're
seeing less and less infantry attacks and more IED, suicide bomber sh--.
The new strategy is simple: attrition.

The insurgent tactic most frustrating is their use of civilian
non-combatants as cover. They know we do all we can to avoid civilian
casualties and therefore schools, hospitals and (especially) Mosques are
locations where they meet, stage for attacks, cache weapons and ammo and
flee to when engaged. They have absolutely no regard whatsoever for
civilian casualties. They will terrorize locals and murder without
hesitation anyone believed to be sympathetic to the Americans or the new
Iraqi govt. Kidnapping of family members (especially children) is
common to influence people they are trying to influence but cant reach,
such as local govt. officials, clerics, tribal leaders, etc.).

The first thing our guys are told is "don't get captured". They know
that if captured they will be tortured and beheaded on the internet.
Zarqawi openly offers bounties for anyone who brings him a live American
serviceman. This motivates the criminal element who otherwise don't give
a sh-- about the war. A lot of the beheading victims were actually
kidnapped by common criminals and sold to Zarqawi. As such, for our
guys, every fight is to the death. Surrender is not an option.

The Iraqi's are a mixed bag. Some fight well, others aren't worth a
sh--. Most do okay with American support. Finding leaders is hard, but
they are getting better. It is widely viewed that Zarqawi's use of
suicide bombers, en masse, against the civilian population was a serious
tactical mistake. Many Iraqi's were galvanized and the caliber of
recruits in the Army and the police forces went up, along with their
motivation. It also led to an exponential increase in good intel
because the Iraqi's are sick of the insurgent attacks against civilians.
The Kurds are solidly pro-American and fearless fighters.

[Vulcan]

Never understood the move away from heavier .308 calibre weapons. From what I've heard of in reports from Vietnam and even the Falklands the bigger rounds always showed their effectiveness.

One of my old man's mates used to field one of these in Vietnam and always reckoned the yanks were jealous of its one-shot-one-kill capability:

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by Vulcan
Never understood the move away from heavier .308 calibre weapons. From what I've heard of in reports from Vietnam and even the Falklands the bigger rounds always showed their effectiveness.

One of my old man's mates used to field one of these in Vietnam and always reckoned the yanks were jealous of its one-shot-one-kill capability:

After he bent his barrel shooting an M-16 from the cab of a truck bouncing down a road, my Dad carried an M-14 that he bartered from a marine.  Said it was the reason he is alive today.  Twice his unit was close to being over run, and once it was.  He stayed alive by playing dead.  Still has the stick marks and tongue scar to prove it.  12 guys lived the last attack.  Sadly, he was an airman, and never should have seen that combat.  A good friend of his, an American SF man, who is featured in the book All We Had (may be the wrong name), had the same thing (only worse) happen to him because of the M-16 problems.  The SF guy (name withheld) said his unit carried Ak's and M-14's after that.

[Hangtime]

i bought 3 m-14's from our ARVN Lt. (i kept losing them playing poker) I also had 2  .45's.. those were with me every second. I despised the mattel toy gun. still do.

[bj229r]

The 2 Delta guys who volunteered for likely death in Somalia (one was Shugart, can't remember the other brave soul's name) both used Vietnam era M14's, for the previous-mentioned reasons.(Wasn't specifically touched on in the movie, but WAS in the book)  They sent a lot of folks to A.W.R. ('Allah's Waiting Room')

[Gunslinger]

Yup the M16 in a normal field environment is a mait. hog.  YOu have to clean the suckers all the damn time.  I can't imagine what it's like with one in the desert.

[Maverick]

Outstanding read thanks very much.

I saved it in case  a mod gets over zealous.

I agree with the assessments of the weapons. Designers have to realize that light weight isn't the ONLY desirable trait in a weapon and it's ammo. Frankly Kalishnikov understood that and made a weapon with decent performance. No it will not win a rifle match. That's not it's design intent. It won't knock down a building either but it WILL penetrate far better than a 5.56 round will. The impact is also better than the smaller lighter projectile. Even in open terain the vast majority of rifle fire takes place under 300 yards. Past that the MG is king for laying down fire and covering a beaten zone.

The M14 is a great weapon. I think (IMO) it needs to be reworked just a bit. Shorten the barrel, add a better pistol style grip to it. Make it as light as possible. Curve the magazines a bit and add an optical sight option like the m-4. Maybe add a 2 round burst option but no more due to recoil climb. It would even be superior to the M=4 / M-16 if it used the AK round. That would save some on weight as well.

In the real world, the shorter a weapon is the better suited it is for urban style combat. Police learned a while ago that a long weapon is a liability in close combat or when you have to put hands on the suspect. It takes 2 hands to effectively use a rifle or shotgun and when you have to secure a bad guy what are you going to do with the long gun? This is bad for close combat, hence the desire for handguns. I think if they can get some high cap mag .45's the troopies will feel better than with a 7 round mag. The 9mm is an "ok" round ONLY with hollow points. Not an option in the military. When you are stuck with ball, bigger and heavier is better.

[lasersailor184]

Err, I actually hate pistol grips.  With a passion.


The stock I love most out of all my guns is a straight 1903 Remington stock.

[Hangtime]

2 things. One.. tactical sling. Solves the hands free issue. Second, the entire 5.56mm philosphy is flawed. Badly flawed.

Would be no trouble at all to rebuild the M14 or FN into a decent modern combat rifle... or we could just adopt the AK-74M; a superior weapon to the mattel POS in every way that matters.

[lasersailor184]

Two round burst would be useless.  3 is the absolute minimum.


You could give most m14's a 3 round burst, then give the biggest guy in the squad a Fully Auto m14...

Of course then you'd have to bulk the gun up, because everyone remembers what happened last time they tried it.

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by Hangtime
2 things. One.. tactical sling. Solves the hands free issue. Second, the entire 5.56mm philosphy is flawed. Badly flawed.

Would be no trouble at all to rebuild the M14 or FN into a decent modern combat rifle... or we could just adopt the AK-74M; a superior weapon to the mattel POS in every way that matters.

I disagree, and own several Ar's,one legal Ak-47, one legal Car, and one legal Car converted to 7.62.

The Car is better hands down.

To convert an M14 to todays specs will be a job.

Just convert the Car to 7.62, issue .45 side arms, problem solved.

[Gunslinger]

Why have burst at all.  Make them auto and semi.  Burst is highly in accurate in the M16 and I couldn't imagine that it would be of any use on a 14.

In addition history has proven time and time again that marksmenship reigns over everything on a regular battlefield.  It's not as important in an urban fight but I wouldn't limit ourselves with an AK type 300 meter weapon, that would hurt if we ever faced an enemy on an open battlefield wich we will.  M14 w/ Iron sites is accurate up to 800 meters on point targer correct?

[lasersailor184]

Yes.


I'm just stipulating about the Auto stuff.  Don't take anything I say about auto as gospel...


I really didn't know that 3 round burst is inaccuratte.  Any reason why?

[Eden]

Look in my hands and see the choice of weapons I made (my other options were M-16 and M-9)


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Although in all honesty the M-16 was more for the crew.  It was this over my 9mm.

This AK had been through alot before I got my hands on it.  I picked it up and shook the dirt off and it fired just fine.   Kept it until we found a chache of new MP-5s in mummy wrap.  Easy choice of which one to picke there.

[NUKE]

Thanks for posting that, what a good read.

I'm going to part from the discussion of the weapons though, because what I thought was most interesting was the description of who we are fighting and how the war is going.

This guy says that we are basically fighting foriegn fighters, and are MOWING them down as fast as they can flood in. He says he heard 45-50 k of them killed?

He also says something I find very interesting: That the Iraqis are getting pretty  pissed at Zarqawi bs.

Seems like the people who have been saying that we are fighting  terrorists in Iraq rather than having to deal with them elswhere have been correct.

"Bring them on" seems to have been a good thing to say, and accurate. We are in a war with people who hate us and want to kill us, and they seem to be flooding in, ready to take the next available seat in Allah's waiting room"