Author Topic: Level bombers and dive bombers  (Read 2168 times)

Offline ghi

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Level bombers and dive bombers
« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2005, 10:50:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Morpheus
Not at all ghi. I dont understand why you're trying to pull this out of topic the way you are. Well I do, it's because this is how you make your living for the most part when in a Buff. I've seen it, and filmed it, and fought against you doing .


 I make my living working, not in buffs, There i need to have the "job done" , following rules and restrictions , no need some in game, as long as this is a feature of the game
 I'm here to  relax and have fun,:)

Offline Morpheus

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Level bombers and dive bombers
« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2005, 10:58:14 PM »
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Originally posted by tatertot
you know i cannot understand why this is  always a issue its simple if we can spawn gvs then spawn buffs to a alt lets say 10k i personaly do not have the time or do not want to take the time to fly for xamount of time to get to alt you would like me to bomb from.I fly low buffs and as far as im concerned that is no different then when you guys go to the middle of a sector and furball all night you think the Germans and BRITS said ok today we meet over london and lets get it on geezez.     if you dont like it then pork all the ords for 100 miles and be done with it. or like Morph said maybe some of my perks could be spent on some fuses so my eggs get delayed lol whatever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


First off I never said anything about "fuzes" for eggs. So get your facts straight before you start quoting me.

Quote
you think the Germans and BRITS said ok today we meet over london and lets get it on geezez


Actually that's not too far off.

Im dam sure the allieds didnt take their fleet of bombers and run them into the sides of carriers. They sure as hell didnt do it with B17's while standing outside the plane out on top of the fulesalage, while piloting the plane, and operating the bomb doors, and bomb drop.

Those who fly in fighters cannot shoot while in external view, hell we can't even get in external view. We dont say, "oh **** wait I lost you on the merge, let me check my external view mode". As someone said "I missed the callibration let me get in F3 mode and suicide/dive bomb it now instead".
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Offline tatertot

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« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2005, 11:43:26 PM »
first off i never quoted you and second why do you care so much about buffs anyway >??? i wouldnt have a issue spawing 2sec out at lets say 10 k  or eggs dont arm under 10k but can i still noe to gun:D
« Last Edit: November 15, 2005, 11:52:41 PM by tatertot »
THE NAME TATERTOT IS NOT FROM MY FAV FOOD !!!!!!

Offline Morpheus

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« Reply #48 on: November 15, 2005, 11:59:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by tatertot
first off i never quoted you and second why do you care so much about buffs anyway >???


If you really need an answer to that question then you have no clue what this thread is even about.
If you don't receive Jesus Christ, you don't receive the gift of righteousness.

Offline tatertot

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« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2005, 12:13:46 AM »
nope no need to answer i know whats its about
THE NAME TATERTOT IS NOT FROM MY FAV FOOD !!!!!!

Offline HB555

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Level bombers and dive bombers
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2005, 01:36:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
On the heavies. Did they really have the option of only releasing  as few as 1 bomb at a time? Or did they only let go of salvos of several or all at once?


DREDIOCK,
I had the personal honor of knowing 2 WWII bomber pilots.
Carl. M Clark, Major, USAAC, (Ret.) who flew out of both Ridgewell, England with the 381st BG, and as a pathfinder pilot out of Bassingbourn, England with the 91st BG in B-17s, mostly, the "Oakie Flak Sack".
Walter F. Hughes, Captain, USAAC, (Ret.) who flew B-24's out of England with the 93rd BG 330th BS.

Both of these gentlemen upon being asked this very question said that although there was a bit of a time delay to the racks to keep everything from falling out of the bomb bay at once, they always dropped everything each time, and never NEVER circled the target for a second run.

Go to the following, scroll down to G-L under John Howland, there are two stories about Mr. Clark.
http://www.381st.org/stories.html

Snoopy Bell
HB555
Snoopy Bell

HB555 A gentleman, with a school boys heart, and crazy enough to think he is a cartoon dog.

Offline gatt

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Level bombers and dive bombers
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2005, 07:22:45 AM »
Morpheus,
it took HTC long time to fix parked ack-stars and parked kamikazes. There is probably something we dont know about priorities in fixing game-ish features :huh
"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline Morpheus

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« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2005, 07:33:03 AM »
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Originally posted by gatt
Morpheus,
it took HTC long time to fix parked ack-stars and parked kamikazes. There is probably something we dont know about priorities in fixing game-ish features :huh


I didnt know it was fixed.
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Offline USHilDvl

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Level bombers and dive bombers
« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2005, 10:39:54 AM »
Well, I'll pitch in;

FWIW...I agree that dive-bombing Lancastukas are completely bogus.  Level bombing, at any altitude, in a heavy, seems perfectly reasonable to me.  Low-level was a common tactic, with the concomitant increase in risk associated.  If you want to brave the fighters and flak in an NOE mission, why not?  Tough run to survive.

I think that what maybe what we want is to look at dive-bombing heavies, augering jabo runs, etc...as we look at suicide missions, i.e...no workee.  If you plow into a carrier with your AC (no bombs), no damage, right?  So the above 'tactics' seem to amount to the same thing, at least to me.

I like the idea of preventing bomb release based on angle...leaves altitude and no-bombsight drops alone, while inherently eliminating "The Lancastuka Effect".

I also think I agree with a short time exclusion after bomb release...that is, die too soon after release, and no boom.  Maybe a second or two?  But how would we address the high-alt fighter-bomber dropping from 10K at full compression who drops early enough to bypass a timer, but is already doomed to face-plant due to compression?  I'm not sure about that scenario.  A little tricky to prevent that tactic, while not affecting legitimate jabo.

Me...I like bombers plenty, but level.  And I agree it's pretty damned easy to get the hang of hitting a chosen target via bombsight, with a bit 'o practice.  I also really like GV'ing.  What I hate is watching a Lanc fly like a 110, bombing the bejeezuz out of a field full of tanks because he doesn't like getting shot up on the ground, and doesn't understand the concepts of evasion and cover.  Come on...seven tank kills in one pass of a Lanc at 500 feet?  Please...  Could the airframes really have survived the stresses that must occur when pulling these maneuvers?  Maybe so, I'm no expert, but seems counter-intuitive to me.


Offline Tilt

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« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2005, 10:44:48 AM »
Ludere Vincere

Offline SuperDud

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« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2005, 11:35:37 AM »
That's a pretty good idea Tilt.
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Offline Iceman24

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Level bombers and dive bombers
« Reply #56 on: November 16, 2005, 12:54:33 PM »
why not just remove the F3 / F4 external view option... As Morph stated earlier, I don't recall any pilots standing outside and ontop of there fuselage. I think this would get rid of allot of problems and make these low alt kamikazees either use F6 or eyeball it from the pilot seat. I fly buffs about as much as fighters and I know if I had the option to use the F3 view in a fighter, it would be very very hard for someone to shoot me down... When flying goons I can make allot of ppl miss just because of that view, if I didn't have it, I would be dead meat for sure. I have always stated that the damage model on buffs, particularly Lancs, B24's and B17's needs to be lowered. Not just damage from guns / cannons, but structually as well. I wasn't in WWII nor have I flown a Lanc in real life, but I seriously  doubt the aircraft would be able to go into a 350+mph dive from 8-10k and then pull up at the last second without seriously damaging the plane. With the exception of JU88's which were used as a very effective dive bomber, all heavies need there structure intregrity lowered... Sometimes when I have allot of time I'll take b24's or lancs up to 20k or so and flatten a field or 2 and rtb, while rtbing, I'll dive the whole time with speeds in excess of 350mph, there is no way the wings on a plane like that would hold together, just isn't possible. Structuraly speaking anyways... But back to my main point, get rid of the stupid F3/F4 views, this game is supposed to be a WWII air combat SIMULATOR, not an XBOX/Playstaion 2 arcade game... From a fighter aspect the game is good IMO, but from a bomber apsect, its all messed up, for instance, if im in a fighter and I shoot a guy down player X, player X is falling to the ground, hasn't ejected or anything, and his wingmate, player Z shoots me and I blow up, before player X hits the ground... I lose my kill... Now lets take this and apply it to buffs. I'm in B26's and dive on a cv from 8k, drop all my ord and die before my bombs hit, while im in the tower (dead) my bombs continue to fall and I get the message ship sunk, gun destroyed, etc, etc... Same thing for torpedos, up some JU88's or a PT boat and launch your torps and die, 3-5 min later u get the ship destroyed, gun hit, etc message. Most of the time when I kill a cv with torps, I've already launched my torps, died, and re-upped in a fighter to furball, then I get my message... I understand the whole kamikazee thing, but its starting to pizz me off too..... What we have going on is 1/2 the ppl playing this game want to play it as if it were real life, up a plane get, hopefully get some kills or bomb your target and actually make it back to LAND there plane or ditch or bail, they actually try and play as if it were real life... Then you have the other 1/2 that play it like an arcade game where kills and deaths mean nothing to them, There's allot of good players in both these groups, but the problem is these 2 groups are constantly in conflict with eachother.... We need to figure out what type of game we want and stick to it. Do we want an arcade or a simulation is the main question... Hopefully when TOD is ready it will help with the simulation crowd, but the more and more I play this, I feel it getting cheasier and more like an Xbox Halo 1st person shoot em up game. And the influx of all the 2 week wonders and 12 year olds that saw the commercial on tv are not helping at all, its getting to the point that good players are having to HO all the time because of all the newbs and dweebs. Last night I  got upset at Pacerr for hoing me when I was trying to roll away from him at the merge and I apologize for that, I now realize that this is what the game has come to, u see someone and u shoot, doesn;t matter about angle or speed or anything, just another version of Doom but in airplanes,  and if you really want a good fight you have to go to the DA, maybe we need 2 MA's, 1 where all the vets, people that have played for over a year can play and another for 1 year and under because its getting to the point I don't want to fly in MA anymore because of all the dweebs... Sorry for turning this into a long ranting post but my favorite game is going downhill in a major hurry and I don't like it.

Offline Tilt

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« Reply #57 on: November 16, 2005, 01:44:08 PM »
Typical lanc or  halifax pilot had but a few hours actual experience in the type and but a few minutes experience in any form of actual violent manouvresin the type.

Even the so called cork screw evasive was mild compared to the suicidal jaunts practiced in the MA

It was not a matter of what the ac could do it was a matter of whether the pilot would ever do it.

Dambusters were atypical.
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Offline Lye-El

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« Reply #58 on: November 16, 2005, 01:48:24 PM »
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Originally posted by USHilDvl



   Please...  Could the airframes really have survived the stresses that must occur when pulling these maneuvers?  Maybe so, I'm no expert, but seems counter-intuitive to me.



Maybe so. You can hit one 4 or 5 times with 37mm rounds and have them fly off. And there is no way you can hit the whole flight that many times. Thats if I can hit them at all. :cry


i dont got enough perkies as it is and i like upen my lancs to kill 1 dang t 34 or wirble its fun droping 42 bombs

Offline Iceman24

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Level bombers and dive bombers
« Reply #59 on: November 16, 2005, 01:54:44 PM »
and that 37mm should punch an exit hole about 5' round lol