Author Topic: P-51D .50 cal problems  (Read 1130 times)

Offline EagleEyes

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P-51D .50 cal problems
« on: November 16, 2005, 12:21:38 AM »
I dont know if its just me and my squaddies, but ive noticed that the P-51D's .50 cals seems not to be doing the damage it should be.  Today i flew with a squaddie (Fish31st) and we both would hammer planes at very close range (300 or less) and get multiple hits and they planes just kept on flying.  Then they would take 1 shot at us and we'd be dead.  I know some of you smartazz's will say we need to aim better and all but thats not it.  Ive damaged a plane more with a spitfires .303s then i have with the P-51D's .50 cals.  Has anyone else noticed this or are we (31st bomber barons) just imagining it?

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Offline 1K3

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P-51D .50 cal problems
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2005, 12:33:57 AM »
Keyword...

Concentrated shots

more bullets should land on the same spot to inflict heavy damage. You need to hold at least 3 seconds on the trigger for the *shredder* to take in effect:)

Offline AKFokerFoder+

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P-51D .50 cal problems
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2005, 12:35:03 AM »
Well, I don't know you sir :)

But I do know that Fish is a deadly shot, and a great pilot to fly with.  It sounds like some kind of server problem...

Although, in my VERY humble opinion, the 50s are a bit undermodeled on  the fighters.  That may be because with 30 of them on a buff box set, they are uber weapons.  It may be a game play balance thingie that reduces the fighters 50 cal damage???

I think I would fly the F4U-1 a lot more if the 50s were more effective than just being assist makers.

The game play does favor cannons, and I am not sure there is really a cure for that though.  I sure don't have one :(

Offline EagleEyes

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P-51D .50 cal problems
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2005, 12:38:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
Keyword...

Concentrated shots

more bullets should land on the same spot to inflict heavy damage. You need to hold at least 3 seconds on the trigger for the *shredder* to take in effect:)



Not sure how more concentrated you can get when your 200 behind a 109 and see hits all over the plane.  Like i said, i dont know if the modeling is off or what, but it sucks.  Seemed to get worse after this last update.  Hope HTC fixes it soon!  The P-51D is my baby!  And i dnt think it has anythign to do with the server because a lot of members of the 31st have noticed this as well.  Even some of the other bish, so agian not sure whats going on but i hope its fixed soon!



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Offline Oleg

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P-51D .50 cal problems
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2005, 01:01:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
more bullets should land on the same spot to inflict heavy damage. You need to hold at least 3 seconds on the trigger for the *shredder* to take in effect:)


3 seconds? :eek: 3 seconds concentrated burst from 6x12 guns will rip b-24 in pieces. 1 sec enough for any fighter usually.

imho 0.5 cal is not undermodelled, it just work in a different way than real.
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Offline 1K3

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P-51D .50 cal problems
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2005, 01:12:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Oleg
3 seconds? :eek: 3 seconds concentrated burst from 6x12 guns will rip b-24 in pieces. 1 sec enough for any fighter usually.


50 cals will only set the B24s on fire ;)

Offline Kweassa

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P-51D .50 cal problems
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2005, 01:51:26 AM »
Quote
You need to hold at least 3 seconds on the trigger for the *shredder* to take in effect


 An exaggeration little too big, I'm afraid. IIRC the AH M2 .50 is modelled at 800 r/pm, which would equate to 13.3 rounds per second. A three second shot at perfect aim would land 240 rounds on a target plane - which is way over what it is now. Offline tests can easily show that on average 20~30 rounds of concentrated fire is enough to set the plane ablaze, or rip a wing off, or explode the plane - depending on where the rounds are landed.

 In other words, indeed a "3-second shot" may be required sometimes - but that's assuming about 90% of fired rounds miss and only about 10% of them connect.


Quote
Not sure how more concentrated you can get when your 200 behind a 109 and see hits all over the plane. Like i said, i dont know if the modeling is off or what, but it sucks. Seemed to get worse after this last update. Hope HTC fixes it soon! The P-51D is my baby! And i dnt think it has anythign to do with the server because a lot of members of the 31st have noticed this as well. Even some of the other bish, so agian not sure whats going on but i hope its fixed soon!


 Convergence distance is a huge issue with planes that have wing-mounted guns. Achieving a "perfectly aimed, perfectly concentrated" shot is always a difficult thing. Add in the fact that the target is usually actively trying to dodge the bullets, and the end result is usually hits spread all over the plane. Being at "200 distance" doesn't mean anything by itself, and it certainly does not mean that the shots are concentrated, just because the range is close.

 Not to be blunt, but if anything "sucks", there is a serious chance that it might be your aim, and not the game. It's not very surprising, as through the years I've been at this forum, I haven't seen a single case where someone would come up with a complaint/inquiry which lay fault to themselves before they fault the system. Unless you are suffering a "rubber bullet" syndrome(which is only feasible with certain graphic settings), or severe internet problems(which the problem will manifest universally over all planes and all guns), the .50 "problem" is at best, a misconception.

 I suggest you go offline and test what the .50s can do.

 Record the material and count the shots landed to kill. And then, compare it with your actual/typical MA recording and count the shots there. 9 times out of 10, people land A LOT LESS SHOTS than they are claiming to be, and that's a fact.

Offline AutoPilot

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P-51D .50 cal problems
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2005, 02:05:20 AM »
Quote
Ive damaged a plane more with a spitfires .303s then i have with the P-51D's .50 cals. Has anyone else noticed this or are we (31st bomber barons) just imagining it?


When in the room controls the lethality of the 50 cals. is the same control as the .303's

It's called the soft lethality setting.

We hear talk of Nudered 109's,and now P-51-D's Hmmmmmm

Offline Kev367th

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P-51D .50 cal problems
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2005, 02:16:15 AM »
Think your imagining it.
Was down to only 50 cals on a XVI, took a good concentrated burst to bring down an F4U.
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Offline Shane

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P-51D .50 cal problems
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2005, 06:24:53 AM »
and no one mentioned to check convergence settings.
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Offline Patches1

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50 cals
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2005, 07:10:25 AM »
I fly the F4U series of aircraft regularly. I love to buff hunt in an F4U-1 and do fairly well againts the buffs with 6 .50cals; I don't do too badly against fighters, either, with .50 cals.

Convergence issues are a key factor in landing good solid hits with .50 cals, unless you fly the nose mounted .50 cal aircraft.

If you " spray and pray " with .50's, you'll likely get " lucky " a time, or, two, but you'll not become proficient with them. Like the .303, the .50s are deadlier up close than they are at distance.

So, perhaps, to best use the .50s to advantage, one may want to get close, very close....perhaps a range of 250, or less, before releasing the devastating firepower of 6 .50 calibers, and that means you must first outfly your opponent (by getting on his six).
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Offline Eagler

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P-51D .50 cal problems
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2005, 07:14:12 AM »
I think they are testing the TOD "luck" setting in this patch

sometimes the 109f explodes them and other tmes, when I have "bad luck", I can barely land a hit or the hits that do land have hardly any effect
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Offline EagleEyes

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P-51D .50 cal problems
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2005, 08:53:06 AM »
I know all about convergence and everything.  Im a full blooded turnfighter and wont shoot anything unless its within 300.  My Convergence is set at 250 for the P-51D.  Im not trying to complain or anything like that, i was just woundering if anybody else was having the same problem.  Thanks for your help guys and i guess its obviouse that its just something i am dealing with.

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Offline Citabria

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P-51D .50 cal problems
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2005, 09:23:25 AM »
the thing to understand about 50cal programming in AH is all 50 cals on every fighter use the same 50 cal coding and there is no difference between a spitfire 50 cal, a p47 50 cal, a p51 50 cal. a p38 50 cal. it all comes from the same source file. the only real difference is the number of 50 cals and their placement on the plane.

try setting convergence to 200 thats where I found most of my shots at and set my convergence acordingly.

dispersion and convergence are the big gest factor in what you are seeing. the 4 little 50 cal on the 38 are deadly because they cluster and fire without convergence at all ranges.

if you arent firing at convergence your not going to be doing nearly as much damage.

there may be a bug but if there was a 50 cal bug it would affect all 50 cal armed planes.

I think across the board the 50 cal is set to a lower damage setting than it was many versions ago but it seems pretty realistic to me though it can be frustrating.

concentrated precise fire on a single area is the only real solution to your problem baring anything wacky happening.


btw hows "AMERICAN BEAUTY" working out? :)
« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 09:28:01 AM by Citabria »
Fester was my in game name until September 2013

Offline EagleEyes

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P-51D .50 cal problems
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2005, 09:40:38 AM »
Fester, WE LOVE IT!! Its the only skin we fly with our Pony's!  Thank you so much sir!!  Its the best skin there is!

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