Author Topic: Lucas to make WWII Air Movie  (Read 3074 times)

Offline Red Tail 444

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Lucas to make WWII Air Movie
« Reply #60 on: October 28, 2006, 08:40:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
so how many fighters did the red tails shoot down?

lazs


Fighter Escort's prime directive is to protect the bombers, which means running off or shooting down the interceptors if necessary. Given that not one allied bomber was lost under their watch, the number of kills (which by all accounts, every squadron embellished their numbers) is irrelevant.

It takes an inordinate amount of dicsipline to fly escort and not get wrapped up in getting kills, even in AH it takes diligence.

In bomber escort, kills are secondary.

Offline Red Tail 444

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Lucas to make WWII Air Movie
« Reply #61 on: October 28, 2006, 08:44:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
ITs not racist.


Who called you a racist? As far as I recall, the first comment someone made about race, was some idiot talking about bling. You made mention of the axis pilots not being as good as they were eariler in the war.

Agreed. You're getting awfully defensive. maybe I missed it, but I don;t believe anyone called you a racist.:noid

Offline DREDIOCK

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Lucas to make WWII Air Movie
« Reply #62 on: October 28, 2006, 08:54:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Who called you a racist? As far as I recall, the first comment someone made about race, was some idiot talking about bling. You made mention of the axis pilots not being as good as they were eariler in the war.

Agreed. You're getting awfully defensive. maybe I missed it, but I don;t believe anyone called you a racist.:noid


this is why I responded

Quote
Originally posted by cpxxx

One other thing, downplaying the achievements of those guys is a little bit racist. Their efforts speak for themselves and like the black riflemen in the infantry they felt they had something to prove and so fought harder than many an equivalent white unit.



On another matter.
Studies have been done that showed Black riflement didnt perform any better. or any worse then their white counterparts.

the idea that because they were black, they had more to prove and thus did better. Is bunk.

There are indeed accounts of Black soldeirs being pretty damn brave.
and distingushed themselves greatly
there are also accounts of black soldiers who didnt do so well.

Just like the white and every other race of soldier in the war.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2006, 08:57:35 PM by DREDIOCK »
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline Thrawn

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Lucas to make WWII Air Movie
« Reply #63 on: October 28, 2006, 10:39:47 PM »
My only concern is that whole overcoming racism aspect will leave less time for dogfight footage.

Offline Shuckins

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Lucas to make WWII Air Movie
« Reply #64 on: October 28, 2006, 11:04:50 PM »
During one of the recent airings of the movie "The Tuskegee Airmen" on the history channel, the host asked a couple of the former pilots to be his guests and offer commentary on the film.

When asked about their remarkable record of never losing a bomber to enemy fighters one of the airmen stated that it was a result of the tactics used.  Their unit was committed to close escort, as opposed to the "search and destroy" free ranging tactics used by other USAAF fighter units operating in Europe.  The "search and destroy" tactics had been adopted in an attempt to hunt down German fighters wherever they might me found and annihilate them.  This often necessitated operating at greater distances from the bombers, which consequently suffered more losses.

There is little to be gained by touting the supposed superiority of either type of tactic over the other.  Merit can be found in either.  Nevertheless, the free-ranging tactics undoubtedly helped to eliminate the German fighter force as an effective weapon, which was, ultimately, the goal of the American figher force.  The Luftwaffe was a broken reed by the summer of 1944 and could do little to hinder the Normandy landings or the subsequent drive by the Allies to the German border.  A strict adherence to close escort might not have yielded the same results.

Offline ghi

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Lucas to make WWII Air Movie
« Reply #65 on: October 28, 2006, 11:55:30 PM »
Here is the movie ,coming soon all this UFO models !


www.simhq.com/_downloads/air/IL-2/IL-2_1946_x.zip

Offline lazs2

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Lucas to make WWII Air Movie
« Reply #66 on: October 29, 2006, 10:03:25 AM »
so how many did they shoot down?   cpxx says 111... so they must have had a lot of aces then?

lazs

Offline Gh0stFT

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Lucas to make WWII Air Movie
« Reply #67 on: October 29, 2006, 05:54:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
My only concern is that whole overcoming racism aspect will leave less time for dogfight footage.


It will be just about the racism aspect, what have you expected?
Watching this thread shows its still about "i'm better then you" or
"You are not better then me"
The statement below is true.
The statement above is false.

Offline Debonair

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Lucas to make WWII Air Movie
« Reply #68 on: October 29, 2006, 07:02:44 PM »
seems like there is a new Red Baron movie OTW too
http://imdb.com/title/tt0365675/
kewl:) :) :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :cool: :cool:

Offline cpxxx

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Lucas to make WWII Air Movie
« Reply #69 on: October 29, 2006, 07:49:58 PM »
Look bluntly, I am a little bit racist. We all are, to be honest.  Drediock is correct. The 'red tails' were in truth that little bit better than the average pilot of WW2. It is quite arguable that the very prejudice that kept them out of the war for so long prepared them better when the time came. If that means anything, it means they were not better or worse than anyone else. Colour is irelevant. That doesn't mean what they did to get themselves into the cockpit of a P51 is any less impressive than it is. Given the times they lived in and the difficultly in getting into a fighter cockpit, white or black. They had to be good. They were good. It wasn't acknowledged much at the time. Finally now it is.

But this I don't believe.
Quote
the idea that because they were black, they had more to prove and thus did better. Is bunk.
From my own personal experience. I know you will try harder to make a point. I don't expect you to understand. But sometimes, it is not necessary to prove it to others, but simply yourself. Sometimes racism or prejudice works both ways. You try harder or fight harder to make the point. 'I am better than you think I am' I am better than I think I am .

Shuckins may be correct, indeed probably is correct. But the 'red tails' had a point to make. Their job was to protect bombers. To do otherwise was to invite criticism. They didn't have the flexibility of other groups.  They would be judged by a special standard and they knew it.
Since then I hope we have moved on. Colour is irrelevant in the context of combat.

Training, motivation and all the rest is what's important. Anyone who has served in a military unit knows that.

Offline Debonair

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Lucas to make WWII Air Movie
« Reply #70 on: October 29, 2006, 08:22:07 PM »
anyone ever read Red Tail Captured, Red Tail Free?
i saw it at teh b00x store, but flinched at the $20 price
was i wrong?

Offline Grayeagle

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Lucas to make WWII Air Movie
« Reply #71 on: October 29, 2006, 08:26:33 PM »
I'd love to see a well done movie about several of the landmark battles of WW2.

The slaughter of Hoth's panzers outside Kursk .. the attempted releif of Stalingrad .. 'Black Thursday' - the raid on Schweinfurt ..or Regensburg ..or one of the big night raids the Brits and their Lancasters pulled off.

There were so many great battles, and we are just now into the technology (aka CGI) to be able to show a bit of what it was like if done correctly.

As for scope .. can be a battle, one man's career, a unit's roughest days, ..there are so many choices and formats to tell a decent story of what happened.

-GE
'The better I shoot ..the less I have to manuever'
-GE

Offline Sweet2th

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Lucas to make WWII Air Movie
« Reply #72 on: October 30, 2006, 05:12:49 AM »
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And the training time for the german pilots was way down


Adolf Galland was known for training the pilots below him whilst in the air and in combat.And was known as one of the best " in the field " trainers in the Lufftwaffe.

Offline Black Sheep

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Lucas to make WWII Air Movie
« Reply #73 on: October 30, 2006, 09:14:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler


made in 1942. All the old movies should be redone with today's cinema technology


Agreed - shouldn't be that hard these days

Offline Black Sheep

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Lucas to make WWII Air Movie
« Reply #74 on: October 30, 2006, 09:14:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler


made in 1942. All the old movies should be redone with today's cinema technology


Agreed - shouldn't be that hard these days