Author Topic: What happened to LW?  (Read 21590 times)

Offline gatt

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What happened to LW?
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2005, 12:39:01 PM »
LOL Glasses you made me spit the coffee on the keyboard .... "deformed being" :D
"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline Guppy35

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What happened to LW?
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2005, 01:01:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JAWS2003
I have one question here a bit off topic. Why did they modeled the P-51B with Malcolm Hood?
 does anyone know how many P51 B's had this canopy from the total number?


They were retrofitted to P51B/Cs in the ETO.  They didn't make it to the MTO or Pacific.

All the RAF Mustang IIIs in England had them and many USAAF P51B/Cs had them from April/May 44 on.  That doesn't mean they weren't being flown with the standard canopy on others at the same time as you can find photos of formations where there are Malcom hood 51B/Cs and regular canopy B/Cs.

Visibility was the big issue.  I wish they had both for AH, but I think the Malcom hood is the better trade off as it allows for the RAF birds to be skinned more accurately and there are lots of USAAF birds that can be done with it too.
Dan/CorkyJr
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Offline Wilbus

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What happened to LW?
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2005, 01:03:24 PM »
Which is why I have almost completely stoped flying the 190's Glasses. The Dora used to be my main ride aswell but it is FUBAR.

And now it feels as if the 109's are going the same way.

But nothing will change by discussing it really so not sure why I bother.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline Sable

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« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2005, 01:08:00 PM »
I fly both the A8 and D9 fairly often and have had no problem with them.  Obviously you aren't going to win many low slow turnfights on the deck.  But the A8 really is faster then any of the free Spits on the deck - hit the boost and wave goodbye.  The Dora really is faster then any Spit or the P-51s on the deck.  And the FW's have 10 minutes of WEP vs. 5 for most allied rides.  If you are getting caught, or can't catch them it's because they started out with a lot more E then you.  My K/D ratio with the A8 so far this tour is over 6:1, and with the D9 over 13:1.  Both well above my overall K/D of about 4:1 (userid is kneedrgr if anyone wants to call bs).

Offline straffo

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« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2005, 01:56:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Glasses
Heck even the Dora,my lovely Dorita cannot catch a fleeing  Pony OTD anymore and has trouble  accelerating away from such deformed being as a F4U-1 Corsair D, for the love of Kurt Tank come on! :O


Eating less burritos will help !
The only "deformed being" I can see is your arse !

Offline hitech

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What happened to LW?
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2005, 02:10:05 PM »
Quote
I think mainly due to remaining with the status quo of financial sucess, I don't blame them but t is as such.


It is always HTC's goal that planes perform like the real thing.

HTC Never modiefies a planes performance based on anything but our best interpitation of the flight data we have availible to us.

We do not have a bias towards any countries planes.

There are generic systems we use that people then try turn into we have a bias.

These include things like flaps.We make generic modeling choices on how to impliment certain systesm Thinks like, do flaps move to any position or do they have preset positions. These have absolutly nothing to do with a bias.We could model all types of flaps systems, but does it realy make much different to the plane.

People who tend to do reaserch on flight data tend to cheary pick the data. This is typicly because the plane they are researching is a plane they have always liked.   I.E. on the FW performance being to slow comes from one report, but they wish to use another report with a better climb rate.

People also tend to belive that there is one set of golden /(Compltly real) numbers on the performance of an airplane. This is far from reality.

Finaly It always amazes me, how people clame things changed, with the 109s this version none of there performance changed. The 109k4 perfomes exatly like the 109G10 did.

The F190D9 has not changed since 2.00 was released. So have you ever flown since 2.00 wilbus or are you refering to pre 2.00 dora?


HiTech

Offline Wilbus

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What happened to LW?
« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2005, 03:39:46 PM »
I am refering to 2.00 190's HT.

Not saying it has changed anymore after 2.00 was released. Just saying I don't fly the 190's because I don't think they perform the way they should. Be it right or wrong HT, much info has been posted and it is often the way you say, people pick the best charts from different planes/types/engines and try to make it look like the same plane.

FYI I said before (long time ago) that I liked the "new" 2.00 190's better then old ones (prior to 2.00) and I loved flying them after 2.00 got out. So YES, I have flown it, and flown it alot since 2.00 was released.

But after flying some more planes, getting out of the 190 and in to some of the US (for example) planes such as the Pony or the P47 the difference is too great to ignore. It really does feel somewhat like easy mode. Is it possible that the US planes were that much better and easier to fly than the German ones?

And NO, I don't think you are biased towards any one country, I don't believe in an LW conspiracy. The LW consipracy is a stupid thing made up by anti-whine-whiners. Don't know why I bothered with one of these threads again, been working to get my Luftwhiner stamp off of me. Look how that worked out.


Thanks for confirming the illusion aspect of the 109 K though, no need to speculate wether it was changed from the G10 or not anymore. Just an illusion as I stated above.


Sable, K/D doesn't really mean anything. It can be achived by vulching or flying in hordes or whatever (not saying that is the way you do it).

People have had 20+ to 1 K/D in 202's. That doesn't mean it is better then all other planes or even close to any other planes in terms of performance.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline VoiceOfThePast

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What happened to LW?
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2005, 04:23:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
There are generic systems we use that people then try turn into we have a bias.

These include things like flaps.We make generic modeling choices on how to impliment certain systesm Thinks like, do flaps move to any position or do they have preset positions. These have absolutly nothing to do with a bias.We could model all types of flaps systems, but does it realy make much different to the plane.  


That's a half-truth Hitech. The flaps system may be generic, but there are plane specific limitations on flap deployment speeds and low speed stability with flaps. Generally those planes whose flap system had a LABEL that said "combat" somewhere in the cockpit get to deploy flaps at higher speeds than other planes. They also have magic carpet stability at low-speed, even if the flap systems are similar or identical to other not-so-nicely-labeled planes. And since the real-life speed restrictions on many of these planes are known and have been posted here I think it is safe to say that the speed restrictions on flap deployment on most if not all planes in AH has little or no foundation in historical fact.

Can someone please put a "combat" sticker over the "Take-off" label in the 190’s?

Offline zorstorer

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What happened to LW?
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2005, 04:53:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp
LOL,

The Bf-109 did not have pilot physically lowered flaps anymore than the P51 had pilot physically lowered flaps!






Both systems took about the same amount of time to deploy.  Only difference is the Bf-109 pilot seems to have more control over exactly how much flap he wants to lower.

Start lowering anymore than about 10 degrees of flaps and drag begins to result in diminishing returns for combat usefulness.

All the best,

Crumpp


Crumpp, reading through there...what is a "spark plug cleaner"?  Was it done in flight or just something to remember to have the maintenance boys do after the flight?

Offline Charge

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What happened to LW?
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2005, 05:00:05 PM »
I still wonder whether I'm right or wrong on the 109 AoA issue...

-C+

"Crumpp, reading through there...what is a "spark plug cleaner"? Was it done in flight or just something to remember to have the maintenance boys do after the flight?"

IIRC there was a lever to retard the ingnition timing to clean the spark plugs. This had to be done eg. if the plane had idled on the field for a while.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2005, 05:11:22 PM by Charge »
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Offline Mime

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What happened to LW?
« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2005, 05:09:15 PM »
I am not claiming any conspiracy against the LW in favor of Allied planes, only what I have witnessed over time.  And I have, along with many other pilots I respect, noticed a salient change in the way Allied planes have become smoother to fly than what they used to be like and the way the 190s and 109s have not changed at all, and even got worse with views.  Maybe it is really true that the LW had such poor planes compared to their adversaries -- and the LW pilots must have been just that much better to do so well.

I first started to question the status of the LW birds when the 190 cockpit was revised.  I and many others posted numerous pictures that the new cockpit bars were overdone.  HTC responded by slightly narrowing these bars, which really made no noticeable difference.  Then I see the Spitfire cockpits redone!!  I ask myself what is going on -- I look at pictures of a Spitfire cockpit and then a 190 cockpit (real pictures, of entire cockpit) and somehow compared to Aces High the Spitfires obstructions are similar to the picture if not smaller, and the 190 obstructions are much larger.  This is what I do not understand.  HTC contributes this to the fact that the cockpits are "3D".  If that is the case why do the Allied planes not have such a huge 3d effect like the 190 which obstruct views?  

Ta 152 FM has sat porked for a year.  Many people have posted proven that the FM is wrong.  Just fly the thing and feel how bad it is.  You don't even need any data.  The plane was not that bad in real life.  No way.  Here we get its real life counterpart, The Tempest, with the most awesome FM ever.  Can we at least get a fair remodeled Ta 152??

Flaps on LW birds.  It seems like even with these deployed at below 200 mph at ONE Notch they create more drag than in the P51 or P47, p38, etc and they definately do not aid as much as the latter's in turn rate.  Was it really true, that the LW could employ the first fighter jet and not put flaps on its 1941 airframes that could help its pilots above a meager 200mph ?

The only LW bird that feels like the rest of the non LW planeset is probably the 110.  It's got the laser guns which you can just hold down all day and pray for one hit which will kill anything and its flaps actually do something.  

Maybe HTC just has not redone the flight models of teh 109 or 190 yet.  I certainly hope they will because I am getting too old and tired of having to use my skilll to offset the easy mode planes my competition is flying. :-)

Offline gatt

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« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2005, 05:14:37 PM »
Oh yeah, and I'm still hoping for a review of the FM of the G-14. This patch is ruining our squad fun. We miss the G-10 with his gondolas and 20mm. Those new beautiful Spits make the life of our 190s and 205s in the Main too tough.

Really, many of us are taking a leave or flying less and less. I'm really sad for the squad and this is not a joke.
"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2005, 05:16:39 PM »
Nath,

As a Spitfire fan I actually think the Spitfire's cockpit views are too generous.  I am less familiar with where the Fw190 and Bf109's should be, but as I understand it from hearing veteran's comments the Fw190 should have superior visibility to the Spitfire and the Bf109 inferior visibility to the Spitfire, though it does get progressively better for the Bf109s.

Gatt,

I am hoping for that Bf109G-14 FM revision too.  It is on my short "favorites" list and I'd really like to see it get it's full performance.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2005, 05:29:07 PM by Karnak »
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Offline Bruno

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What happened to LW?
« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2005, 05:36:22 PM »
Well I am no expert by far but I test a lot of the planes I like to fly in, mostly 109s. They all seem to check out, at least with in the realm of believability, with the the exception of the G-14 which Pyro said he would look at. There is no definitive document that will 'prove' that every 109, or every 190 should perform as such...

But others have tested their favorites as well. The 190A-8 being of the most early on in the life of AH especially early. It has always matched up well. I haven't bothered to test it in sometime but some one can if they like. Lets look at AHs D-9.

AH forum member Naudet has been researching the D-9 for years. He has stated  AHs D-9 was as believable as they come (if not performing slightly better).

He recently found actual flight test for the D-9 at Nasm:

Quote
And the day got even better when i quickly read a frist time through the pages, cause they not only contained the performance numbers/curve i expected. No there was testflight data for the FW190D9 Wk.-Nr. 210 002 with both "Erhöhte Not-/Startleistung" and with MW50 injection!
We finally have it, real flight test speeds for a Dora with the Special Emergency power settings.

And as a goodie the documents from the NASM also points me to some of the Junkers reports about engine troubles with the first batch of serial production JUMO213As.
That way we are now able to explain why the flighttests we know and the calculated numbers differ from each others, actually we don't need to explain it, cause the FW engineers already did it back in 1944/45 for us.


Quote
Good news first, starting with the 20th of June i will be in work again. Bad news, its supposed to be a more than fulltime job, which will restrict my times for further research somewhat.

But for those that are interested in the FW190D documents from the NASM here are their designations:

1. FW/Fb/FW190-210001 (1-2)
Reel: 8069 Frame: 1153

2. FW/Fb/FW/210001/(3)
Reel: 2861 Frame: 989

3. FW/Fb/FW190-210002 (1,2,3)
Reel: 3996 Frame: 343

4. FW/FW190/Sch/16/3/45
Reel 2731 Frame: 797


Those four together will be exactly 50 pages, so if you order them, you won't exceed the limit per order.

About the Junkers documents, i use my last free week for a while to forward them to the people that supplied me with valuable informantions and documents in the past. That way we should soon have a good base to discuss any questions/issues arising from those docs.


Now folks like Nath and Wilbus have much more time in the AHs LW plane set then me. At least enough to notice any subtle changes between patches. However, with  most of these types of complaints there is very little actionable data provide. Mostly just opinions and the inevitable crowd of 'HTC hates / cheats' the LW parrots.

I am no fanboi, but any anyone can run some tests for AHs aircraft and post their results. Opinion stuff just won't get you any where.

'Woe is the Luftwaffe...'

Offline Crumpp

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What happened to LW?
« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2005, 05:44:44 PM »
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People who tend to do reaserch on flight data tend to cheary pick the data. This is typicly because the plane they are researching is a plane they have always liked. I.E. on the FW performance being to slow comes from one report, but they wish to use another report with a better climb rate.


Ah, no and please don't even try and insinuate that.

The data I sent into HTC is actually on the lower end of Focke Wulfs production performance specifications, as I did not have a copy of those trials at the time.  It was a flight testing of Rustsatz kits and not production machine performance trials.  It is within those specifications but is not "average performance".

Guaranteed performance specs:
 
 

I have the production performance trials on the FW190A6 and FW190A8 now.

As for the Dora I helped Naudet with his evaluation and very much agree for top speed and climb.  The sustained turn ability is another issue though.  

All the best,

Crumpp
« Last Edit: November 22, 2005, 05:50:11 PM by Crumpp »