Author Topic: War - China vrs USA  (Read 3156 times)

Offline Estel

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War - China vrs USA
« Reply #45 on: November 23, 2005, 02:34:52 PM »
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Originally posted by Yeager
I truly believe we should arm japan to the teeth.  Can you imagine three divisions of pissed off samuri warriors rolling through the middle east.  


You forgot one thing. There is no peace agreement between Japan and Russia. So we will withdraw from service our conventional bombs and missiles in the usual way. By using them in their straight practice. :-)

Offline BlueJ1

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« Reply #46 on: November 23, 2005, 02:36:38 PM »
Very well said Eagl.
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Offline Estel

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« Reply #47 on: November 23, 2005, 02:38:32 PM »
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Originally posted by eagl
We wouldn't lose, but probably couldn't "win" either.  [...........]  It's an important distinction to make and although we're persisting in Iraq out of a sense of moral obligation after trashing their national infrastructure and government, we're essentially forcing a square peg into a round hole.


Good speech. One problem. Against of Chine, you don't have an Idea to fight for. But Chine do have it. Maybe the word "Communism" make you laugh. But for Chinese army it's a primary idea in mind.

Offline BlueJ1

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« Reply #48 on: November 23, 2005, 02:41:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Estel
Good speech. One problem. Against of Chine, you don't have an Idea to fight for. But Chine do have it. Maybe the word "Communism" make you laugh. But for Chinese army it's a primary idea in mind.


Ok maybe now a days we can go to war with a 3rd world country with little an idea. But to go to war with a country as big, both economically and numerically, we would have the idea your looking for.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2005, 02:44:51 PM by BlueJ1 »
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Offline eagl

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« Reply #49 on: November 23, 2005, 02:41:49 PM »
You're right Estel.  The discussion was based on a hypothetical assumption that we DID find some legitimate reason to go to war.  I agree, there is currently no reason to go to war with China.  But it's stupid to assume there never will be, so the discussion will go on even if it's purely hypothetical.
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Offline Estel

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« Reply #50 on: November 23, 2005, 03:48:29 PM »
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Originally posted by eagl
You're right Estel.  The discussion was based on a hypothetical assumption that we DID find some legitimate reason to go to war.  I agree, there is currently no reason to go to war with China.  But it's stupid to assume there never will be, so the discussion will go on even if it's purely hypothetical.


The problem is not only to find a reason. The main problem in all wars is to force the soldiers to fight. And in professional army, like in USA for example, this will be a problem. Because if you don't defend your homeland, you will need a very weighty reason to send people into battle. The chinese have this reason. Muslims have this reason. Do you have this reason? It's a hypotetical question too. If you do not have words to your soldiers except "You'll get a lot of money" - you'll loose. If you have something like "We will build communism/The world halifat" you'll win. It was thousand years ago and it is still the same. The Idea uniting the people. Considering an opportunity of the beginning the war you should be prepared to the situation when your soldiers or the whole nation will refuse the similiar idea. Or you think, that after Vietnam and Iraq, the nation will agree to be at war on any front for any ideas? I don't think so. And I'm not sure that you'll find that reason and that slogan for the war which in result can lead to the end of a civilization.

edit from here:
P.S. In Russia we have one saying. I'll try to translate it: "That soldier who has not left the ashes of the native house behind the back is bad."
« Last Edit: November 23, 2005, 03:51:05 PM by Estel »

Offline BlueJ1

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« Reply #51 on: November 23, 2005, 03:55:05 PM »
Even with Vietnam and Korea I believe that under a few circumstances the people of the United States would unite. Of course their will be those who are aganst it. No one enjoys war (Except Marines :p ).
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Offline Estel

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« Reply #52 on: November 23, 2005, 04:24:02 PM »
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Originally posted by BlueJ1
Even with Vietnam and Korea I believe that under a few circumstances the people of the United States would unite. Of course their will be those who are aganst it. No one enjoys war (Except Marines :p ).


In that case, we should pray, that these circumstances have not been created synthetically.

Offline eagl

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« Reply #53 on: November 23, 2005, 04:35:39 PM »
Estel,

The thing that has saved the US military, even after we became an all-volunteer force, is that we (most of us anyhow) actually trust our government to employ the military in legitimate situations.  Sure, individuals will always question the value of a war, but time and again Americans have stepped up to fight when called to do so by their country.

If that's too strange of an idea, just consider the US Civil war.  In that war, households were torn apart as people turned to their sense of moral obligation and came up with different answers.  Some chose a loyalty to local or regional obligations, but a great number chose loyalty to the concept of a nation made up of many states.  The union won, and to this day when that union raises the call to arms, people respond.

That trust may be lost in the future, but for now Americans still trust that their blood will not be spent by their elected government on useless or trivial endeavours, and that the government, once it has sent citizens into combat, will not abandon those citizens.  Our enthusiasm for combat does not come close to the fanaticism displayed by various groups around the world, but what we lack in bloodlust we make up for with a passion for technical excellence.  That makes the US military extremely effective from both the tactical and National Strategy points of view.

Give us a reason to fight and enthusiastic leadership, and the average US Soldier/Citizen becomes a match for any troop in the world in terms of both competence and "guts".  Blame it on a constitution that pretty much guarantees that the average person MATTERS...  Sure the US doesn't have a radical national religion to bolster our courage and tell us that we're destined to rule the world, but the constitution is a pretty good alternative.
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Offline GreenCloud

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« Reply #54 on: November 23, 2005, 06:32:40 PM »
China contiunes to build up there army


China waits till after the Olympics


China brings land forces through alaska


USA moves gov from DC to Denver..where the final battle occurs..USA wins

eastern and western coast are glass

I do like the egg roll aproach though

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #55 on: November 23, 2005, 07:33:08 PM »
Statistically speaking, in China, even if you are one in a million, there are a thousand more just like you.
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Offline Bodhi

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« Reply #56 on: November 23, 2005, 09:12:26 PM »
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Originally posted by GreenCloud
USA moves gov from DC to Denver..where the final battle occurs..USA wins


We already have enough pansy arse liberals in Colorado, don't suggest bringing more!   :mad:
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Offline Momus--

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« Reply #57 on: November 24, 2005, 04:27:08 AM »
How could China ever sustain a conventional war against the USA when they are utterly dependant on oil from the Persian Gulf, an area almost completely within the USA's sphere of influence? One wrong move and the US could close the spigot and China's industrial and military machine would grind to a halt.

Offline Ghosth

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« Reply #58 on: November 24, 2005, 06:39:14 AM »
China invade the Continental US, naw, never happen. Besides, they need us as customers.

Now Australlia, THAT is tempting to the chinese.

Think of what they could do with all that empty space. Why they'd be able to drop the birth controls for 50 years!  Tawain first, though, at least in my opinion.

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #59 on: November 24, 2005, 10:04:28 AM »
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Originally posted by Ghosth
Besides, they need us as customers.



Dear god, how this incredible idea persists.