How I Lost the War in Iraq

[Silat]

Originally posted by NUKE
Silat,  keep this post handy for the future, when people like you are listed as the ones with no vision or spine.

I dont march in lockstep with PARTY Nuke.
I actually use my head and think.
I vote country not party...

Nuke when do you forsee this fantasy of yours happening?
I mean the one where you and Bush are heldup as right?
How many years?

[Silat]

Originally posted by Krusher
Its John Powers.

A movie and pop culture critic for NPR who now wants us to believe that he is a foreign policy and war expert.

He is a left wing radical extremist that fits in perfect with the "Bush Hater" crowd.

Goes along with your Hate all things that dont follow BOOSH

[Silat]

Originally posted by Gunslinger

Bloody...not nearly as bad as It could have been, Expensive...yes I will agree with that


Loudly criticised yet hardly proven


probably very little but he could have had EVERYTHING to do with the NEXT 9/11


Other than set major policy these three have very little to do with what's actually done on the ground.


shocking and appalling things happen everyday, the world is an imperfect place

[/b]
aside from france Germany and Russia, the liberals of the world will get over it.

[/b]
so you are saying you DONT want US troops to succeed?  When one number-two man is killed he is often replaced no?

 

no I don't get your point.  Actively blaiming every failure of the war on Bush becuase it hurts him and that supports your agenda does hurt the overall effort.  Asking for a troop pull out immediatly gives a HUGE win to terrorists all over the world.  Calling the war grim/failure/mess at halftime is grosly exaggerating the situation.  I beleive in my heart that there are people out there in this world and in the US that want the war in Iraq to fail because they hate the president that much.

and PS you didn't lose the war in Iraq, it is not lost.....as I said it's only halftime. [/B]

Pulling out the criticism is hurting the troops card?
Give me a break and a reasonable discussion.
You march in lockstep with party lines and apparently do not see the forest for the trees...

That being said.
We needed more troops on the ground and our illustrious warrior president didnt see it that way. He removed anyone who said otherwise.
He doesnt have the balls to institute a draft and put his money where his mouth is.
And by the way I can pull out any number of writings from the troops, to counter yours, who dont see it the right wing way

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Silat
Pulling out the criticism is hurting the troops card?
Give me a break and a reasonable discussion.
You march in lockstep with party lines and apparently do not see the forest for the trees...

That being said.
We needed more troops on the ground and our illustrious warrior president didnt see it that way. He removed anyone who said otherwise.
He doesnt have the balls to institute a draft and put his money where his mouth is.
And by the way I can pull out any number of writings from the troops, to counter yours, who dont see it the right wing way

Well you march right along with if you say a lie loud and long enough it becomes true.  That's the left's problem is most of what you and them say you cannot prove.  Most of what is said isn't reasonable criticism....it's outright slander and lies.  I would agree with a few more troops to shore up security till the elections but then it's time for the Iraqis to start getting their feet wet.

[Torque]

Originally posted by VOR
This thread is priceless. Left and/or right wing zealots can't seem to see the forest for the trees.

Some things never change.

for most here the war is in the abstract. how many of these zealots do you think actually have had or have family over there, in either of the gulf wars, i'm guessing none...

[AWMac]

Failure?

Hmmm...

Schools are up and teaching not only boys but girls also. That's a failure.

Iraqis want peace as much as the next, recuritment for Police and Army is higher than Pre War Iraq. Diffinately a Failure.

Citizens of Iraq are directing/turning in locations of insurgents... Baath Party what? Now it's like getting Religions to play nice together... Hmmm like the Protestants, Catholics, Mormons and Bhuddhist.  *Listening to John Lennons "Imagine" right now* BIG Failure.

and the promise of 70 virgins after MartyDum? Hell I married one woman and have been with her for 25 years now...69 more women wouldn't be Heaven, it'd be a livin Hell.

But then again if I remove my Rose colored glasses the town of Perfect fades away....

Because I can see past the trees and realize it's just as any other War *except Grenada* that it's not the enemy demoralizing the American Troops overseas...it's his/her homelands own media.

God Bless Our American Troops during the times they need us the most.
Happy Thanksgiving, Merry Christmas and Happy New Years.

Mac
US Army Retired

[GRUNHERZ]

So Torque, is your default position that somebody who has relatives fighting in Iraq cannot possibly support the war?

You do know that lady Cindy Sheehan isn't the only American with family members who fought or are fighting in Iraq, you know that right?

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Torque
for most here the war is in the abstract. how many of these zealots do you think actually have had or have family over there, in either of the gulf wars, i'm guessing none...

Does one have to have "family over there" to have a point of view or opionion on the war?

My country is at war over there, and as such I have a great deal of interest and opinion on the subject.

I feel the war is going very well and better than I ever expected it would go.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So Torque, is your default position that somebody who has relatives fighting in Iraq cannot possibly support the war?

 

Maybe if someone don't have family over there, they should have no reason to oppose the war and should just keep quite.  

[Holden McGroin]

With customary Kantian rigor, they pointed out something that had never once occurred to me. It is my skepticism, defeatism and invidious “realism” — put simply, my bad attitude — that have been undermining our nation’s mission in Iraq.

by JOHN POWERS

It seems there is some historical precedent that could slightly dislodge Mr Powers tongue from his cheek.

Giap was prepared to take a gamble. His divisions had been battered whenever they met the American forces in conventional combat and the VC- if not exactly on the retreat -was at least being pushed backwards. Hanoi was perfectly aware of the growing US peace movement and of the deep divisions the war was causing in American society. What Giap needed was a body-blow that would break Washington's will to carry on and at the same time would undermine the growing legitimacy of the Saigon Government once and for all. In one sense, time was not on Giap's side. While Hanoi was sure that the Americans would tire of the war as the French had before them, the longer it took, the stronger the Saigon Government might become. Another year or so of American involvement could seriously damage the NLF and leave the ARVN capable of dealing with its enemies on its own. Giap opted for a quick and decisive victory that would be well in time for the 1968 US Presidential campaign.

In 1968 the General launched a major surprise offensive against American and South Vietnamese forces on the eve of the lunar New Year celebrations. Province capitals throughout the country were seized, garrisons simultaneously attacked and, perhaps most shockingly, in Saigon the U.S. Embassy was invaded. The cost in North Vietnamese casualties was tremendous but the gambit produced a pivotal media disaster for the White House and the presidency of Lyndon Johnson. Giap's strategy toppled the American commander in chief. It turned the tide of the war and sealed the General's fame as the dominant military genius of the 20th Century's second half.

John Colvin author of "Giap Volcano Under Snow"
   

maybe not...

[Gh0stFT]

Originally posted by NUKE
I feel the war is going very well and better than I ever expected it would go.

i'm sure this would make a good sig under pictures of all the victims of both sides of the war,
guess it depends on the viewpoint where you watching it from.

[Holden McGroin]

How about under a picture of the million or so victims of the sanctions policy?  

On second thought, I guess that picture would need some sort of alternate caption.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Gh0stFT
i'm sure this would make a good sig under pictures of all the victims of both sides of the war,
guess it depends on the viewpoint where you watching it from.

In the same way that the war against Germany in WWII cost lives, yet was for the greater good and ended up freeing a continent to live free lives ( with the exception of Russian zones) and restoring order.

I guess you have to have a more than just a limited, basic view in order to see.

[Gh0stFT]

Nuke, why come up with WW2 ? because i'm from germany?
ok imagine i'm from um...lets say, Argentina! what would you say then?

beside that, comparing a total world war (ww2) with the Iraq war is
sorry, nonsens.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by moot
Failed to understand, improvise, and conquer beyond reproach, apparently.

And who's "we"?

"We" would be the US and its participating allies
If you are a citizen of any of those countries
That would include you kemosabi