Author Topic: gasoline prices (Read 2355 times)

Sandman · « **Reply #75 on:** November 29, 2005, 12:35:49 PM »

$2.27 is better than here.

J_A_B · « **Reply #76 on:** November 29, 2005, 12:57:20 PM »

"3-door hatchbacks"

I have never seen the POTUS or Queen Elizabeth II riding around in such a vehicle for any signifigant length of time. If those little cars are so excellent, then why aren't our leaders leading by example? The President typically rides around in a Cadillac limo, and the Queen is known for being transported in Range Rovers. Neither type of vehicle is known for getting terribly good mileage.

Show me a vehicle that is equal to my Buick but also gets 45-50 MPG and costs the same and I'll buy it. I wouldn't mind doubling my gas mileage, but I refuse to make the kind of trade-off that I'd have to make in order to buy the high-mileage cars which are currently available. Heck, if I drove your Audi, Beet1e, I would have ended up with my car being torn apart on my last trip to WVa (I had to drive the Buick through a creek bed, then tie a rope to my bumper to pull out another vehicle).

By the way Beet1e, just how many people do you think drive "3 tonne" vehicles that get 12 MPG? Yes, I know you're using that phrase in the same manner as I use "tin can go-karts", but that doesn't mean I can't press you on the issue

J_A_B

lazs2 · « **Reply #77 on:** November 29, 2005, 02:24:18 PM »

socialist economics allways kills me... so beet is saying that taxing gas more will reduce the price? Taxing only leads to more taxing. and then when things go up as they are wont to do.... even more expese..

or perhaps we can tax our gas into low prices like they do in england? How has making gas cost so much in limeyland led to cheaper fuel for everyone?

lazs

beet1e · « **Reply #78 on:** November 29, 2005, 03:18:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by J_A_B
By the way Beet1e, just how many people do you think drive "3 tonne" vehicles that get 12 MPG?

I think you'll find that storch described his wife's car as such, earlier in this thread. The answer to your question is therefore... 60 less than would have been the case just at storch's dealership alone. Repeated nationwide it would equate to many thousands of people who bought something more frugal.

But oh how quickly we forget. Just a few short weeks ago, people were whining about the post-Katrina gas prices as if their world had ended. People on this very board were giving up their cars and switching to other forms of transport. I don't think we're out of the woods regarding the fuel shortage issue. Let's see what happens as N. America and Europe enter the long winter ahead...

As for my tin-can Audi, I'm getting it tomorrow! Don't know if I'll be driving through any creek beds (what's one of them?) but it does have variable 4WD, which was my main reason for getting it now - before the winter snow and ice. Given that even my FWD petrol GM POS from 1986 could tow a 30ft glider trailer uphill to the Long Mynd glider site, I have no doubt my tin can Audi would be able to do it too. No trade off for me - I'll have all the seats I need, and the luggage compartment will be more than adequate. I already know it can accelerate to motorway cruising speeds with consummate ease. I'm expecting around 46mpg overall average, and a maintenance interval of 18,000 miles. What more could I want? Perfect!

Lazs - unknot your panties.

______________________

"Waste not, want not" - 28th US Pres. Woodrow Wilson

Skuzzy · « **Reply #79 on:** November 29, 2005, 03:32:12 PM »

Just to point out. It is not neccessarily true the larger vehicle is worse on fuel usage than the smaller one.

Take a car which gets 30MPG and drive it 90 miles a day, versus the vehicle which gets 10MPG but only gets driven 10 miles a day,..which is more frugal (aside from using the 30MPG vehicle on the 10 mile/day drive)?

I think we should levy a variable rate tax against vehicles based on thier economy. The worse the gas mileage, the higher the tax. Vehicles which have no EPA rating pay the highest level of tax. Farmers and truck drivers (16 wheelers) should be exempt. Maybe all commercial vehicles should be exempt.

Take the money from that tax and fund fuel/power alternative research and development. Seems to make too much sense to me, so it will never happen.

beet1e · « **Reply #80 on:** November 29, 2005, 03:51:35 PM »

skuzzy - I think your suggestion makes sense. But you mentioned the T-word 4 times, so Lazs will have you down an an uber-socialist from now henceforth and for all eternity!

Skuzzy · « **Reply #81 on:** November 29, 2005, 03:59:30 PM »

Ah well, I have been called worse and I am sure I will be called worse as time goes on. Stuff happens.

I hate taxes and really dislike government intervention, but the private sector has no real impetus to toss thier money at alternate solutions.

storch · « **Reply #82 on:** November 29, 2005, 04:10:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Skuzzy
Ah well, I have been called worse and I am sure I will be called worse as time goes on. Stuff happens.

I hate taxes and really dislike government intervention, but the private sector has no real impetus to toss thier money at alternate solutions.

nor will they until the cheapest currently available energy sources are completely exploited. go watch starman, you'll feel much better later.

J_A_B · « **Reply #83 on:** November 29, 2005, 04:16:18 PM »

"People on this very board were giving up their cars and switching to other forms of transport. "

I wasn't among them. Some people are funny like that. I'm glad you like the Audi, Beet1e (and I really mean that, too).

Believe it or not, on that same trip to WVa(it was in the Spencer area), I actually saw a smaller vehicle which impressed me to a degree. We had to drive up a 1-lane dirt trail on the side of a fairly steep hill/small mountain. I managed to force the Buick up it, but couldn't turn around. It's a dead-end, so when we finished the day's business, there was only one way out. Lets just say that backing down a steep, wet, 1-lane dirt trail with no guardrails in a Buick sedan isn't exactly "incredibly safe". A buddy who was along was driving one of those Korean 4X4 mini-SUV's; I'm not sure of the specific model. Somehow, and I will never understand how this was possible, he managed to TURN AROUND within the space of that narrow lane and go down forwards. If I move to WVa (I've been considering it for some time), I think I'll probably invest in a similar sort of vehicle for use in those sorts of conditions.

"I think we should levy a variable rate tax against vehicles based on thier economy. The worse the gas mileage, the higher the tax."

We have this--it's called the gas tax. Use more gas, pay more tax. We have it, but I don't like it.

I dislike any tax like that because all it does is shaft the poor while having little to no effect on the wealthy. If you want to force people into crappy little econo-boxes, then at least force it on EVERYONE--including the rich and our leaders.

J_A_B

Skuzzy · « **Reply #84 on:** November 29, 2005, 04:17:53 PM »

storch, I have no idea why watching a movie would change the way I feel, nor do I really have any idea why you think I need to change how I feel.

I posed a propostion. No one has to like it. I do not really care if you do or don't. At least I made a proposition. I guess I could have taken a cheap shot at someone instead, but that's not really my style.

JAB: The gas tax is fixed. I just suggested making it variable. It should impact the poor very little to not at all as most poor people drive smaller cars anyway.
Rich would be impacted as they normally do drive gas guzzlers.

It's not about forcing anyone into anything.

J_A_B · « **Reply #85 on:** November 29, 2005, 04:23:34 PM »

"It should impact the poor very little to not at all as most poor people drive smaller cars anyway."

You live in a city, don't you?

J_A_B

Skuzzy · « **Reply #86 on:** November 29, 2005, 04:25:31 PM »

Raised on a farm. Lived in the country most of my life. Would be in it today had the city not expanded and caught me. Looking to move out farther away again. My wife already commutes about 100 miles a day.

What's the point of the question?

J_A_B · « **Reply #87 on:** November 29, 2005, 04:53:16 PM »

"If you have something to say, then say it. "

I'm saying that what I quoted from you is inaccurate for some regions of the country, but likely true in urban or suburban areas. Hence my [accurate] belief that you're approaching the issue from the perspective of a city-dweller. You probably see all those people with more money than brains driving in rush-hour traffic with their 10 MPG Hummers and crap like that. Yes, that's stupid, and represents one of the downsides of American freedom--having freedom means being free to do dumb things.

On the other hand, when I think of your suggestion I immediately think of what it would do to someone who gets seasonal work at best but needs a 4x4 just to get up his driveway.

I think of how most of the more wealthy people in my own rust-belt town drive "trendy" little sardine cans like small BMW's and New Beetles, while less well-off people drive whatever they can afford--very often older cars or pickups with bad mileage just because they're easier to work on.

I also think of myself. The thought of being penalized for driving larger vehicles bugs me because small vehicles simply lack the attributes I seek, and I don't exactly qualify as "wealthy" (I drive a 10-year-old car for crying out loud). That 50 MPG Geo Metro isn't going to help my wife pay the bills if I get run down by a drunk. I can't even drive something like a Geo without feeling naked and helpless and at the mercy of chance.

J_A_B

Skuzzy · « **Reply #88 on:** November 29, 2005, 05:11:21 PM »

Just to be correct JAB, my perspective is one of being sick and tired of being a slave to an oil based economy. It was ok when we supplied our own oil, but when I look around at how much independence our country, as a whole, has lost, it sickens me.

I am more than willing to give up a few more pennies per gallon if it means we can get our collective heads out from under one of the guillotines we have built.

I am not going to say the idea would not cause some people pain. It probably would. I am not even sure if it could be implemented given the logistics involved, but it is an idea. Do you think we should not be trying to get out from under an oil based economy?

Furball · « **Reply #89 on:** November 29, 2005, 05:13:51 PM »

lets invade iraq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh wait...

lets invade canada!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!