Swedish supercruise :)

[Russian]

I'll take couple Su-30's for 1/3 price and blow you all up  

[funkedup]

The SAABS are very nice.  There was a nice article on them in Air Power Journal recently.  When I start my own personal air force we will have a squadron of them.    

I think the Finns were smart though.  The Hornet is a good fit for their operating environment and it's combat proven unlike some of the alternatives.  IIRC the "pressure" from the US consisted of VERY lucrative offsets.  "Pressure" my bellybutton - the Finns made a good deal.    

Sukhois are nice but I think the only combat victories they achieved are some "maneuver kills" at airshows.    

[ 09-26-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

[StSanta]

Well one thing that's extremely important for small countries (and Sweden has only about 8 million inhabitants) is low operational cost - nothing beats the Gripen here.

The Eurofighter is running very expensive - and it's not even operational like the Gripen. It has two engines and better range than the Gripen, but other than that, there's little difference; the Swedes have used the canards for years. The Viggen (Thunderbolt), the predeccessor to the Gripen had 'um too.

Yer right about the arrestor hook though Staga; but ya need to take off too  . I doubt that a fully laden F/A-18 can do it with less than 400 metres (which is what the Gripen will need for a landing). Also, as I'm sure DB603 will tell ya, it's not quite as serviceable in cold weather as the Gripen  .

Heheh Funkedup, yer probably right; the US cut the price to get the deal  . Of course, in Sweden the story is that that's not the only thing they did  .

Now, it would be sorta neat to have all these 4th generation fighters up in the air in mock combat  .

[1776]

So that's a Saab?  Wonder what Toyota has up their sleave?

[Jochen]

They were gonna sell it to Finland, but the Fins opted for the F/A-18, reportedly after quite heavy pressure from the Americans.

I dont think it was pressure, rather a smart marketing tactics.

At the time of decision, Gripen didn't have any BVR armament available. Saab was negotiation with US to purchase AMRAAM to Gripen but guess what? The deal was authorised only after Finns had already bought F/A - 18  

[Wilbus]

Well, short landings require a hook, fast takeoff for the F18 (as fast as Gripen) requires a catapult. The 2 planes can't be compared in the same way though, Gripen has pretty short range, used primary for defence since Sweden is a "neutral" country, we're not going on an offence and haven't gone on one for ages.
The empty weight of a Gripen is 5300Kg, that's similair to the P47. Fully loaded the Gripen is at 14000kg.

As for SU's, IMO they would beat many new planes, even 4:th generation fighters in Close combats thanks to their manuverabilty, AFAIK the SU's don't have any "max G" that stops a pilto from pulling as high G's as he can handle. All new fighters, Gripen, F18, F22, Eurofighter etc have the computers to limit it around 7-8G's that can be overridden for a very short while if you pull hard.

I've never understood this thinkin, the pilot and plane pulling the highest G's in a combat will win, if a pilot can handle 10-14G's with a G suit, but is limited to 9, this is a serious disadvantage.

[Wilbus]

Thought I'd might mix in the Viggen in here aswell, it's IMO the most manly plane today  

The JA37 Viggen is the fighter version, JA stands for Fighter/Attack. When the JA37 first flew, it was the fighter in the world with the most powerfull engine ever, no other fighter plane had an engine as strong as it. The same thing goes for the 30mm cannon, no fighter had ever been givven such a powerfull gun.

The engine is rated at 125000 N (28100 pounds).

The plane has never stopped accelerating, reason for this is that the pilots aren't alowed to use the engine at or close to full power and full afterburner, allso, on full afterburner the plane would have enough fuel for 5 minutes only.
The max speed they have been up to (not on full power) is more then mach 2.5, wich is pretty fast IMO.

Fuel consumption on full afterburner is 68000 Liters per hour (17964 US gallons or 14958 UK gallons).

Not sure but the engine MIGHT still be the most powerfull single engine ever fitted in a fighter, anybody know a bigger one?

They're capable, just like most other Swedish planes, to operate on short strips and in harsh weather. Landing distance is shorter then 500 Meters and take off is shorter then 400 Meters.
Unfortunatly they are to be taken out of service in a few years, big misstake IMO.


 

 


 

 

So many beutifull pictures of this bird but I can't add them all, I like the one with the snow covered strip alot  

[LtHans]

Its the pilot, not the plane.

But a good plane helps....

Hans.

[Wilbus]

If the plane limits the G the pilot can't do what he could do in a plane with no G limit.

[Naso]

Staga, using Doppler radar as speed trap it's unfair!!!

 

And this is a policecar from witch you cannot escape:

"Maverick locked, stop or i pull the trigger"  

BTW Viggen it's a beauty.

[Serapis]

SAAB and the Eurofighter consortium stand to really capture the next generation export market. Though, as previous posts suggest the Eurofighter may be too expensive to attract many sales -- its hard to imagine how such a committee project could get so out of hand from a development cost standpoint  

Still, it's also hard to imagine too many countires affording F-22s or even the JSF. Too bad, since exports help keep the overall program costs down.

And the Viggen has always been one of my favorites    

Charon

[ 09-27-2001: Message edited by: Charon ]

[Skuzzy]

Wilbus, and someone jump me if I miss the mark, I beleive the F-16's current engine output is 32,000 pounds.

[Staga]

Waitin' for bus eh ?

 

Viggen looks ugly if compared to Draken IMO  

[Soda]

It's strange that the Gripen hasn't been sold more widely.  For the cost of a Gripen, and the technology that is packed in the airframe, it's quite a deal.  It has datalink capabilities that are only now coming into existence in other aircraft and the maintenance requirements better match a less technically capable/advanced customer.  But, when you buy F16 or F18 you get to ask for AMRAAM as part of the deal... when you buy Gripen you have to try and negotiate for it afterwards, a tough job.  If JSF survives then it'll become a competitor also.

Notice how much the canards obscure rear-down view in that first picture.  It might just be the angle but it makes the plane almost appear to have swept wings like an F14.

All these Su30/27 fans forget one key thing about it's maneurability, they are always displayed at airshow takeoff weights.  One thing never considered is actual combat weight performance.  Several articles have been published that talk about the extremely high internal fuel load on the Su-30 series and the relative positioning of that fuel.  Apparantly it shifts the CG quite radically aft and limits maneuverability fairly severely at normal combat weights (Su-30's have high combat weights).  Some estimates have placed as much as a +7G limit on an Su-30 at even 60% internal fuel...

The original Su30 was basically just a long range interceptor without canards or thrust vectoring.  Most notable it had better avionics (which in the Su27 tended to be fairly primative), a second seat, in flight refuelling, and larger internal fuel (including wet tails and rear stinger boom (thus the large shift in CG)).. people are probably talking about the Su30MKI as in Indian Service (well not quite yet, though they are ordered and in testing) or some places call it the Su-37 in Russian service.  The Su-37 does have canards and thrust vectoring.  Then again, the Russians had about 5 designations for every aircraft and variant so it can be confusing.

-Soda

[Dowding]

Well, while the Eurofighter development programme might be expensive, per unit cost will be a fraction of the F-22. Also, the RAF gets its first plane next summer and will eventually have 150 to replace its Tornado F.3 aircraft.

Invisible to radar? Until someone overcomes it with new technology and negates the advantage.   Hasn't there already been something created to detect the stealth?

BTW, the Tornado is still a competitive plane. Seems to do rather well in those RAF/USAF Red Flag competitions.