Female police officer gunned down in UK?

[Nashwan]

I don't have figures for those shot, but the police memorial trust records those killed on duty, and has a breakdown of each case for the last 10 years:
http://www.policememorial.org.uk/NationalRoll/NationalRoll.htm

[lazs2]

nashwan... Ok... lets look at the murder rate... it is about 4 per hundred thousand in the U.S. and

1.7 for the U.K.  

now, let's take the 52% black homicides out and we will get about 2 per hundred thousand in the U.S. excluding blacks.

I did not exclude the others because as you say... I wanted a good cross section of the population... rich poor etc.   I excluded blacks because they scew the stats so badly with such a high rate.  

UK has only about 2% blacks so they are statisticaly irrelevant..

In any case.. it is a small distinction.  hardly worth disarming yourself..

As for police... our police make many more arrests than yours.  Our police put themselves in harms way much more than yours...

What would your police death rate be if say if blacks there commited  52% of your homicides?   How would your police deal with that?

And... they get paid for it... and...

every POLICE (not political taody police chiefs) association ever queried feels that they want the population armed.  Why would that be?   Could it have something to do with the fact that citizens with guns stop 1.5-3 million crimes a year?   could it be that the beat cop knows what is going on in the streets and has some common sense?

certainly you would admit that the policeman in the U.S. knows a lot more about it than some guy living on a little island across the ocean with a high crime rate?

lazs

[Dowding]

I excluded blacks because they scew the stats so badly with such a high rate.

No you excluded blacks because it doesn't suit your rosy little picture. Perhaps the fact that they skew the stats is symptomatic of a fundamental problem within US society?

Perhaps you could exterminate them all so you could 'win' arguments about statistics on internet forums. It clearly means so much to you given the amount of effort you put into crowbarring gun crime into each thread.

Our police put themselves in harms way much more than yours...

And how, pray tell, do you know such a thing? Cetainly this latest cop victim put herself in harms way.

[lazs2]

dowding... when you have a segment of the population that commits 8 times as many homicides as the rest combined... you would have to admit that tarring everyone else with the same brush is kinda "convienient"

It is not me that is doing it tho... the Department Of Justice and the FBI think it is important enough to give rates by race.

If our cops are working amoung a segment of our population that is 8 times more murderous than yours.... would that not mean that they are putting themselves in harms way more often?

If our police make more arrests than yours even tho you have a higher crime rate... would that not indicate that ours are putting themselves in harms way more often?

lazs

[Yeager]

the UK should reconsider its ban on execution.  There are simply people alive on this planet that need to be put down for good.  Whoever killed that woman should be executed, not as vengence, even though thats alright, but because as long as that person is alive they are  likely to kill again and any decent society deserves to be permanently protected from those types.  There is the possibility that these types will escape from imprisonment.  It cannot be put to chance.

[Swoop]

Back to the point.  Tragic.  That's what it was tragic.

And criminal.  


Someone should be sacked over this and here's why.

1)  Two probationary police officers were patroling together.  This should not have happened, one probationer should have been patroling with an experienced officer.  The shift inspector should have damn well made sure of this.

2)  Two probationers were sent to a bank robbery.  This should not happen either, the armed response car should have been sent, at the very least experienced officers should have been sent, not two unexperienced newbies.  The dispatching sergeant should have damn well made sure of this.

3)  deleted comments about middle aged women police officers due to not wanting to take flak from the equality crowd

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Swoop
Back to the point.  Tragic.  That's what it was tragic.

And criminal.  


Someone should be sacked over this and here's why.

1)  Two probationary police officers were patroling together.  This should not have happened, one probationer should have been patroling with an experienced officer.  The shift inspector should have damn well made sure of this.

2)  Two probationers were sent to a bank robbery.  This should not happen either, the armed response car should have been sent, at the very least experienced officers should have been sent, not two unexperienced newbies.  The dispatching sergeant should have damn well made sure of this.

3)  deleted comments about middle aged women police officers due to not wanting to take flak from the equality crowd

So Swoop, after reading the above replies, seems no one who is from the UK has attempted to touch my 2nd question about Police in UK being armed.  Should they consider arming all police officers, naturally after extensive training?

[Nashwan]

nashwan... Ok... lets look at the murder rate... it is about 4 per hundred thousand in the U.S. and

1.7 for the U.K.

now, let's take the 52% black homicides out and we will get about 2 per hundred thousand in the U.S. excluding blacks.

No Lazs, it doesn't work like that.

You only halve the rate by halving the number of murders if you keep the same population

So, 16,137 murders, 295 million people, murder rate is 5.5 per 100,000 people

Take away all murders committed by blacks: 8,000 murders. But the population is no longer 295 million people, because that population figure includes black people.

You only halve the murder rate by excluding black people if you exclude the murders they commit, but include them in the total population figure.

So the true picture:

All murders: 16,137 murders, 295 million people, 5.5 murders per 100,000 people

White muders: 8,000 murders, 242 million white people, 3.3 murders per 100,000 people

I did not exclude the others because as you say... I wanted a good cross section of the population... rich poor etc. I excluded blacks because they scew the stats so badly with such a high rate.

The point is blacks in America are the urban poor, to a very large extent. By removing a race that makes up most of the urban poor, you are removing most of the urban poor, and skewing the statistics.

UK has only about 2% blacks so they are statisticaly irrelevant..

No, that's an old figure, and excludes mixed race and Pakistani/Indian/Bangladeshi which is the largest minority group in the UK.

As for police... our police make many more arrests than yours. Our police put themselves in harms way much more than yours...

Your police certainly do put themselves at more risk, they have to deal with armed criminals on a regular basis.

What would your police death rate be if say if blacks there commited 52% of your homicides? How would your police deal with that?

They'd deal with it in the same way they deal with other groups committing murder.

And... they get paid for it... and...

That's all right then.

every POLICE (not political taody police chiefs) association ever queried feels that they want the population armed.

And here they don't even want the police armed, let alone the population.

And yet our method results in far less murders, both of civilians and police officers.

dowding... when you have a segment of the population that commits 8 times as many homicides as the rest combined

If blacks in the US commit "8 times as many homicides as the rest combined", how come they only commit about half of all homicides?

For them to commit "8 times as many as the rest combined" they'd need to commit about 88% of all homicides in the US.

If our cops are working amoung a segment of our population that is 8 times more murderous than yours.... would that not mean that they are putting themselves in harms way more often?

Of course they do. The whole US population has easy access to firearms, and uses them frequently to murder other members of the US population, including policemen.

[StarOfAfrica2]

Wait..............

Where are you getting your population numbers for the US?  Because they dont match up with the figures from the US Census Bureau.  It may not be entirely current information, being almost 3 years old now, but unless the US has experienced a significant population drop in the last 3 years, which I doubt ............. well, I'd really like to see the sources for this population data.

[Nashwan]

CIA world factbook.

But the US census data fits it rather well. The 2000 census records the US population at 281.5 million, so 295 million is close to 14 million more, not less, people.

[Momus--]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
How could this possibly happen where guns are outlawed?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1890902,00.html

That question makes about as much sense as asking how a bunch of Saudis could fly two planes into some skyscrapers in a country where hijacking planes and flying them into buildings is outlawed.

[texace]

USA allows guns = bad

UK disallows guns = good

That's about all I ever see in these threads.

[Vulcan]

“On the average, somewhere in America one police officer is killed every 57 hours"

Gee Rip ya really steped in a **** this on this one

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by texace
USA allows guns = bad

UK disallows guns = good

That's about all I ever see in these threads.

Nope, my opinion is:
USA Allows guns = necessary
UK /Aus /NZ disallows/licenses guns properly = good

The situations in each country is chalk and cheese. You cannot remove the guns from the US, its simply not practical. However, the US cannot apply its logic to other countries, they simply don't have the same crime/gun issues.

[Curval]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
So Swoop, after reading the above replies, seems no one who is from the UK has attempted to touch my 2nd question about Police in UK being armed.  Should they consider arming all police officers, naturally after extensive training?

I don't think all of them have to be armed necessarily...some are...and that speaks to Swoop assement that someone should be fired for sending these two officers into a potentially dangerous situation involving gun play.