Author Topic: Female police officer gunned down in UK?  (Read 1235 times)

Offline Ripsnort

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Female police officer gunned down in UK?
« on: November 26, 2005, 09:26:09 AM »
How could this possibly happen where guns are outlawed?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1890902,00.html

Offline Furball

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Female police officer gunned down in UK?
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2005, 09:41:10 AM »
thats pretty poor and disrespectful bait rip.  very low.

its like saying how do people in the USA get drugs when drugs are outlawed.

The wife and mother of five you used in your bait: -

http://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/section-item.asp?sid=12&iid=2029
I am not ashamed to confess that I am ignorant of what I do not know.
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Offline lazs2

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Female police officer gunned down in UK?
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2005, 09:53:26 AM »
criminals will simply not obey the law.

If the laws have heavy enough penalties and are fair...  they will obey them slightly more tho.   An armed society makes criminals modify their behavior.

So far as guns go... I believe as our founders did that guns keep free men free.   Times change but people and criminals and tyrants really don't.   It is prudent to have the tools to defend against them.

I believe that england is in for some real problems with more and more criminals and poor illegals and drugs to prey on a defenseless populace.  That is what you are really... defenseless.  You are lucky that you are a little tiny island but it seems that you are getting some implossion... home grown criminals with no fear of unarmed citizen victims.

While I feel bad for the woman officer killed... I see it as a beggining..  you can't make it more illegal to have guns or to kill people... you have allready gone as far as you can in that direction.   I don't see any solution for you on the horizon.


lazs

Offline VOR

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Female police officer gunned down in UK?
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2005, 09:58:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
thats pretty poor and disrespectful bait rip.  very low.


+1

Offline Ripsnort

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Female police officer gunned down in UK?
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2005, 10:06:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
thats pretty poor and disrespectful bait rip.  very low.

its like saying how do people in the USA get drugs when drugs are outlawed.

The wife and mother of five you used in your bait: -

http://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/section-item.asp?sid=12&iid=2029

It's a serious question. How do criminals get ahold of guns even in society's where they are outlawed? The same question of debate is applicable in New York as well.

The 2nd question would be: Were these police officers armed and if not, why not? It seems society has failed her if she were not an armed officer.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2005, 10:15:08 AM by Ripsnort »

Offline straffo

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Female police officer gunned down in UK?
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2005, 10:14:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
It's a serious question. How do criminals get ahold of guns even in society's where they are outlawed? The same question of debate is applicable in New York as well.


Silly question , to make a paralel :
in the US drug is no allowed but it can be found.

Quote
The 2nd question would be: Were these police officers armed? [/B]


Dunno, will it make them more efficient ?

Offline Ripsnort

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Female police officer gunned down in UK?
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2005, 10:17:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
Silly question , to make a paralel :
in the US drug is no allowed but it can be found.



Dunno, will it make them more efficient ?


No parallel where the penalty for drug possession is minor, thus making drugs more readily available. Guns are not as readily available as drugs.

Would it make them more proficient?  Ask yourself, is an armed criminal more likely to confront a highly-trained armed officer?

Offline Ripsnort

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Female police officer gunned down in UK?
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2005, 10:24:35 AM »
Related article of whether or not at the VERY LEAST that UK's police officers should be armed (IMO).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4451640.stm

Offline Nashwan

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Female police officer gunned down in UK?
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2005, 10:29:05 AM »
Quote
It's a serious question. How do criminals get ahold of guns even in society's where they are outlawed?


Mostly they don't. Occasionally they do.

It's worth pointing out that this was the 38th murder of a police officer in the UK since 1985.

In the same period, the US has seen approx 1350 police officers murdered (1302 to the end of 2004), excluding the terrorist attacks on 11th September.

How do police officers in the US keep getting murdered when they have guns to protect themselves?

Offline lazs2

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Female police officer gunned down in UK?
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2005, 10:52:15 AM »
better cops than citiizens...  They get paid to go into dangerous situations... least.... ours do..

if you take out the black homicide rate (52% of all U.S. homicides) then your homicide rate is the same as ours but with more overall crime..

This seems impossible... how desperate and fearless would a criminal have to be to commit a crime on.... an island?   LOL  where is he gonna go?

It's like pulling a robbery in disneyland after the gates are all locked up.

and... unbelievably... it is gonna get much worse in limeyland..  

as for guns... bet I could get a gun in any country on earth in a week no matter what the laws.... I could make one in a day or two.   I can make ammo too.

lazs

Offline DREDIOCK

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Female police officer gunned down in UK?
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2005, 11:13:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Furball


its like saying how do people in the USA get drugs when drugs are outlawed.



I think thats his point
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline Staga

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Female police officer gunned down in UK?
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2005, 11:20:41 AM »
Rip; how many police officers per million ppl  gets wounded / killed per year in US and how many in GB?

Do You think it's safer in GB to be a cop than in US?




If not then you have to admit Brits have taken care of their things better than You... oh what a horror!

LOL You're "special" :)

Offline Nashwan

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Female police officer gunned down in UK?
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2005, 11:48:46 AM »
Quote
   Rip; how many police officers per million ppl gets wounded / killed per year in US and how many in GB?

Do You think it's safer in GB to be a cop than in US?


The US has approx 700,000 full time police officers, the UK about 140,000. In other words, almost the same per capita, as the US also has about 5 times as many people as the UK.

As such, the US has 5 times the number of police, 35 times as many police murdered. By my simple maths, the US rate is 7 times ours.

Quote
better cops than citiizens... They get paid to go into dangerous situations... least.... ours do..


It's not just the cops, though, Lazs.

Total murders in the last 5 years:

England & Wales: 4129
US: 80,423

(the US figures exclude 11th September, the UK ones exclude Shipman, who's murders were recorded in the last 5 years, but carried out in earlier years)

Quote
if you take out the black homicide rate (52% of all U.S. homicides) then your homicide rate is the same as ours but with more overall crime..


No, it's not.

The US had 16,137 murders last year.

About half those are by whites.

That's, say, 8000 murders.

The population of the US is about 295,000,000, of whom about 82% are white. That's about 242,000,000

8000 murders by 242,000,000 people is a rate of 3.3 per 100,000

The rate for England and Wales is 1.6

And that includes negligent manslaughter, which is excluded in the US. As an example, there are 20 "murders" in the UK figure that occured when a group of cockle pickers, illegal immigrants from China, drowned in Morecombe Bay. They are listed as homicide because of the negligence of the man in charge, who took them out at night without proper safety equipment etc.

In the US, cases like that aren't included in the FBI figures.

And the UK rate is also for all groups, not just cherrypicking the upper socio-economic groups and exludining large numbers of urban poor, who tend to commit most violent crimes.

You've previously said you think crime in the UK is nearly all committed by white people, as you don't think there are many immigrants in the UK.

The police are seeking 3 men for the murder of this woman officer, 2 are Somalis, the third is born in Britain of Somali parents. 25% of inmates in British prisons are from ethnic minorities.

storch

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Female police officer gunned down in UK?
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2005, 12:01:16 PM »
constable Beshenivsky

Offline beet1e

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Female police officer gunned down in UK?
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2005, 12:02:11 PM »
Well I was getting ready for a good long typing session, but Nashwan has covered all the points. :aok

Ah yes, Ripsnort hasn't changed - he still believes that a law is pointless unless it works 100% perfectly. 98.5% isn't good enough in Ripsnort's perfect world. The fact is that NO law works perfectly - in the UK, the US or anywhere else.

By the way, Nashwan, do you have figures for the number of British police officers who were shot and killed since the beginning of 1984? I know of Yvonne Fletcher (1984) and Keith Broadhurst (2003) and now Sharon Beshenivsky, but I read of another officer shot in 1994 and also an off duty cop who had a go but was shot in 1988.