HO bubble

[Shane]

Originally posted by Wilbus
Same thing happens in the nature from time to time when two animals meet. They can't decide wether to fight or run so they both sit down and start groming themselves.
Same as in AH.  

Thank you for this outstandingly disgusting mental imagery of some hairy, fat dweeb behind his monitor trying to lick his nads while barreling in for a HO.

edit:  of course i'm sure some FBD's have pix of SOB actually doing it...

[Max]

It would be interesting to see what happens if range icons didn't come in to play at distances beyond 1000.

DmdMax

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Shane
edit:  of course i'm sure some FBD's have pix of SOB actually doing it...

SOB isn't flexible enough to groom himself, so he has to groom others instead.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Shane]

Originally posted by DMax
It would be interesting to see what happens if range icons didn't come in to play at distances beyond 1000.

DmdMax

just as interesting as if we could have actual 20/20 vision modeled, i'm sure.  i swear with some of the darker (newer) instrument panels, we're legally blind in terms of in-game vision.

[mechanic]

i never die from a HO, i really dont see whats so difficuly about avoiding them.

[Knite]

I love HOs....

(in both respects... lol)

But seriously, I like HOs mainly because I know I suck pretty bad, but if someone's trying to HO me, that means there's a decent chance they suck too, and by dodging the HO and maneuvering, I can get a kill and not die. =)

I DO like the idea of removing the distance marker though. Dunno if it'll help HOs but definitely will make it tougher to aim.

[WxMan]

Originally posted by T0J0
Lev
Thats the best qualification for what had been basically blanket statements in the past by you on the subject of HO, you do realize your skill set in AH is extremely above the average AH member and what may make total sense to you and seem hugely a non issue too someone with your skills could in fact be a major negative to a majority membership that may or may not attain your level of skill ever after years of practice?
OP
TJ

Well my skill set is considerably below Levithan's and perhaps below the average, but I've never died in a HO that I've tried to avoid.

[Schatzi]

Id rather loose a fight then 'win' it by HOing the opponent down.

Generally i manage to avoid most HOs. Unless im too slow, saw the guy too late, or otherwise been busy with his friends. Each of this situation would be entirely my fault. There might be one HO or two a tour that you cant avoid, but hey.... does that really matter? I rant for a min or two on squad chan, then move on.

TJ is right though, there *is* a certain skill level (even if its a basic one) required to avoid HOs. But one that i think can be achieved by anyone that sets his mind to it. But thats just it. You have to be *willing* to learn ACM, go the hard way, and die a lot in the process.

Not everyone is a masochist like i am .



PS: Max, I did some no-icon fights in the past. Snapshots and DA. Its actually not all that hard to judge distance simply by size of the airplane. More difficult is the relative movement (comes my way or extends?). Just NEVER loose sight of the opponent. Hes difficult to find once you lost him. It sure makes for some new, fun challenge.

[Wilbus]

Originally posted by Shane
Thank you for this outstandingly disgusting mental imagery of some hairy, fat dweeb behind his monitor trying to lick his nads while barreling in for a HO.

edit:  of course i'm sure some FBD's have pix of SOB actually doing it...

Bwhahaha!

Bet you'll have nightmares now

[nazgulAX]

The HO is annoying, and sometimes unavoidable in a big furball ( some guys will allways up cannon planes and go Ho'in when the furball is at their base)
And no, It doesn't take 2 to HO, many fights start nose to nose, but it takes both planes to decide their going to have a good old ACM fight.

Wadke and I had one of those epic turn fights the other day that started at 10k and ended 5 mins later at the deck. The kind that leave your arms tired, hands shaking, and wanting a drink and a cigarette when it's over    ( at least thats how I felt ) Needing to pull all the ACM's in the book...flaps , Thrott, going like mad....just a great fight...one of the best I'v had in a long time.

3/4 of the way through...another enmy jumped in...didn't HO either...and the fight continued for a while longer.

The reason for such a good fight IMO is that neither of us went for a HO from start to finish.

The fight could have ended sooner ( or never happened at all ) with a well placed HO, but what fun would that have been.

BTW.....got HO'ed by a mossie while RTB and I never landed those 2 kills....lol

to Wadke.......There can still be good fights in the MA, both pilots just need to be willing to have them.

[Vortex]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying


First, HOs prove extremely frustrating to people with an AW background.  They are difficult to avoid because AW players never learned how to avoid or exploit them.  They were essentially non-issues in that game and are anything but non-issues in Aces High.  I felt this way the first year after I moved from AW to AH -- I wanted headons removed so I could fight, damnit!

-- Todd/Leviathn

You can state it confidently, but it doesn't make it any less correct. AW had its time with HO's too. Learning to avoid them is not the issue, nor are some fictional tactics that are ingrained in any who flew the sim. That concept is quite absurd.

As I've stated before, the frustrating part (for me) is that HO's put the game into easy mode. Its not that AH is so difficult....hardly. Its that its arcadish with the HO. With the beefed up gunnery, laser sighting front quarter joust, etc its infinitely easier to rack up kills in AH than it ever was in AW, regardless of where you got your sim feet wet. Learning to avoid them, just as was the case when AW had them active, is a few minute afair. That doesn't take away from the fact that it gives the game a real arcade feel. Once you've transitioned to the different flight model, AH is a far easier environment to prosper in (which is really the point). This carrying over bad tactics argument is simply incorrect.

I think DoK summarized it well though, and is spot on. I also agree with his conclusion too in that I don't think its something that will ever change. But AH needs it Tie Fighter components too, and its certainly got them in this case.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Vortex
You can state it confidently, but it doesn't make it any less correct. AW had its time with HO's too. Learning to avoid them is not the issue, nor are some fictional tactics that are ingrained in any who flew the sim. That concept is quite absurd.

[/b]

You cannot possibly compare HOs in AW with HOs in AH.  The hit resolution in both games differs substantially, so the sorts of considerations that went into reducing the likelihood of HOs in AW do not exist whatsoever in AH2.

As I've stated before, the frustrating part is that HO's put the game into easy mode. That's what's frustrating. Its not that AH is so difficult....hardly. Once you've transitioned to the different flight model, kills are infinitely easier here than in AW, especially for the AW veteran who brings over a sound ACM background. Its that its arcadish with the HO. Learning to avoid them is a few minute afair, although that isn't the point at all. That doesn't take away from the fact that they are the dominant tactic for many and it gives the game a real arcade feel.

[/b]

If kills are easier here than in AW, it is only because of two things:  a lower general skill level in AH, and the lack of HO protection that provided a safety net for players who could force nose-to-nose situations.  I disagree that HOs give the game an arcade feel; in fact, IMO Air Warrior seems much more of an arcade game than AH when viewing it retrospectively.

AW just happens to be an example of a sim that didn't encourage jousting, HT's works are examples of sims that do.

And again the problem is this -- Air Warrior dissuaded jousting but rewarded behavior that was not realistic, particularly when it came to dodging BnZ/E-fighting attacks.  Aces High allows unrealistic levels of jousting but punishes unrealistic behavior in other situations.  We'll call it a tradeoff then, but it's a tradeoff I'm willing to make.  Perhaps you are not.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[DoKGonZo]

Actually, AW players are less likely to HO. Back in the day the only plane that was well suited to the tactic was the FW - it was THE cannon bird. Period. In AH everything HO's ... HO Populi ... Zekes do it, Mustangs do it, bombers do it. Somewhere in the back of an AW players mind is the logic that says "I'm in a P51, he's in a N1K1 ... 6 50's v. 4 20mm's ... HO'ing would be bad for me"  ... not so the person who's only played AH it appears.

And, lest nothing be good said about HO'ing, it is pretty much the only shot you get on the venerable Pork Runner.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Actually, AW players are less likely to HO.

I was always less likely to HO back when I first started.  It was deeply ingrained in my way of approaching the game that it was not a valid tactic, so the thought of HOing didn't enter my mind in most situations.  That of course led to further frustration early on because nobody else had such qualms.

I really think that the transition from AW to AH is an easy one.  The single biggest thing is the pervasiveness of HOs; once a player adjusts to that, it's like old times again.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[jaxxo]

Well i must say i find them very very annoying...not so much in that they are hard to dodge but in that just about every fight I get in my opponents go for head ons...this is fine accept that im usually fighting 2 or more who still insist on using the ho. If im forced to merge in any kind of nose to nose pass I can be assured of massive amounts of nose jerking cannon spray from my oponents..gamey and weak..jmo