Perking the TA152

[Brooke]

Actually, everyone is missing the strengths of the Ta 152.

It was developed late in the war not as a bomber interceptor, nor even as a long-range, high-altitude fighter as has been previously suggested.  At this stage of the war, the Nazi's actually had acquired the Ark (as depicted, with great inaccuracies, in Raiders of the Lost Ark) and were able, before losing the Ark to a raid by British special forces, to incorporate some slivers of the contents into a new plane designed for that role -- the Ta 152.

It was named the "Ta" for "The Ark" (using the English words to throw off enemy intelligence agencies, as "Ta" in German stands for completely different things).  The slivers of the Ark were able to impart supernatural power only at higher altitudes (closer to the source), so the aircraft had to be made with ability to get to altitude.  Once there, and activated by special ritual, it was then able to come back down and outperform -- even at sea level -- any plane in existence.  It could outturn Zeros, outrun 262's, and emit divine fire powerful enough to destroy any aircraft in one burst.  The cannon on the aircraft were just for show and as backup armament in case the pilot got in a fight before getting to "arcane ritual altitude".

The problem is that none of you have ever taken the Aces High Ta 152 up to 40k, pressed alt-ctrl-shift-a, waited 30 seconds, then pressed alt-ctrl-shift-r (for "Arcane Ritual") to active the "Ark" mode of the Ta 152.

This is why all of your complaining about "correct modelling" is so ironic.  You complain about the modelling of the Ta 152 when in fact Aces High is the only game in existence that gets the modelling right.

[Krusty]

I give it a 6 out of 10. While humorous and interesting in nature, it was not brief enough nor succinct, and lost something by the 3rd paragraph.


I found a quote about the Ta152H-1.... Supposedly MW50 and GM1 were scarce for allies after they had confiscated select German aircraft. One Ta152H1 was tested without them, and was found to be "competitive but inferior" to the spitXIX (a recon plane, but it was a late era spit and performed very well) in both climb and speed. The non-WEP 152 AH has modeled will barely break 2000fpm. The non-WEP tested was "competitive but inferior" to 4300fpm for the spitXIX. The quote mentioned that the lacking boost would most likely have improved this standing to match or exceed the spit. So why does AH's 152 [fixed] climb like a fully loaded Ju88 when it ought to climb without wep the way it does with wep?

What is "Competitive, but inferior"? Could be 3500fpm.... Could be 3750fpm... Could be 4000fpm! It's a helluva lot more than "barely 2000fpm".

[Kurt]

Originally posted by Krusty

What is "Competitive, but inferior"? Could be 3500fpm.... Could be 3750fpm... Could be 4000fpm! It's a helluva lot more than "barely 2000fpm".

What spit can't make 2k fpm Krusty?  The XVI turns in 3500 all day long and more than that down low.

The 9 will happily turn in numbers only a little lower...

Are you loading 100%, Drop Tank, Gas Grill, 75 pounds of tri-tip steaks, two hookers, a 52 inch big screen TV, 800 pounds of ice and 12 cases of beer?

[Krusty]

Read it again. We're talking about the Ta152. When compared to a spitXIX it was called "Competitive but inferior" -- and that was without WEP.

So AHs model is so far below that it's not funny. There's a big discrepency here, and judging how the 152 currently flies, the error is on HTCs part.

[Kurt]

CC, you made a typo that said the Spit didn't climb... Now I understand... see below...

Originally posted by Krusty
So why does AH's spit climb like a fully loaded Ju88 when it ought to climb without wep the way it does with wep?

[Krusty]

DOH I'm a retard

edit: fixed

[Vortex]

This is why all of your complaining about "correct modelling" is so ironic.  You complain about the modelling of the Ta 152 when in fact Aces High is the only game in existence that gets the modelling right. [/B]

I think that's a pretty fair statement. One just doesn't spend much time at 30k+ dogfighting in AH (well, doing anything for that matter). And that's where the 152 is at least competitive.  From everything I've read I don't really thing the 152 is modelled poorly in AH.

That said, its pretty tough justifying perks for the plane based on any arena-centric performance numbers.

[Morpheus]

1) Its too bad such a unique plane sucks so bad.

2) Its too bad such a unique plane that sucks so bad is perked.

[moot]

I once had the patience to drag a spit14 up to 45k or so.
At that height, compared to the spit, it still flew like a down-syndromed hydrocephalic leper on morphine... no contest..
It was actually worse than down low.

[Morpheus]

"The best piston engined fighter the germans had"

hmmmm

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Krusty
Read it again. We're talking about the Ta152. When compared to a spitXIX it was called "Competitive but inferior" -- and that was without WEP.

So AHs model is so far below that it's not funny. There's a big discrepency here, and judging how the 152 currently flies, the error is on HTCs part.

Seems strange comparing it to XIX, XIX was a photo recce Spit.
Better match would be a end of war (Mar 45) F.21 . Althoguh the F.21 produced it's best speed at around 23-26k, approx 455mph.

[1K3]

Originally posted by Hades55
another one view of the story http://www.nzfpm.co.nz/fragments/fot_best.htm

Two of the Best

It was the 14th April 1945 and the war against Germany was rapidly drawing to an end. A young New Zealander from Nelson, Warrant Officer Owen Mitchell, had found that he was centre-stage to the death-throes of a nation.

An excellent cricketer and sensitive musician Mitchell had joined the RNZAF in 1942 directly from University where he had been studying engineering. At 20 years of age the young pilot transferred to England where, after training, he started to accumulate flying hours as an instructor and pilot with various Operational Training Units.

By early 1945 Mitchell had over 700 hours to his credit and was converted onto the latest fighter in the RAF inventory - the Hawker Tempest V. The next step was operational flying and he was delighted, when in early March he found that he had been posted to No. 486 (NZ) Squadron based at Volkel in Holland. The squadron was on the front-line and coming into daily contact with a still very efficient Luftwaffe as well as fierce anti-aircraft fire.

By early April the squadron had moved into Germany itself and was using their base at Hopsten to harass the enemy both in the air and on the ground.

At the German base of Neustadt-Glewe, Oberfeldwebel Sattler was also delighted with his new posting - to the elite Luftwaffe unit called the Stabsschwarm (part of JG301). They were flying the latest German fighter and ultimate development of the Focke Wulf 190 series of aircraft - the Ta-152.

At 6-25pm on the evening of the 14th Mitchell and three others from his squadron took off on an armed reconnaissance of the area. The section attacked a train north of Ludwigslust and then became split up. The leader and his number two ordering Sid Short and Owen Mitchell to make their own ways home.

Short and Mitchell, busily strafing along the rail tracks nearby on their way home, came under the watchful eye of lookouts at Neustadt-Glewe who immediately despatched three Ta-152 to intercept. The pilots - Aufhammer, Sattler and Reschke were on the scene in seconds. Reschke takes up the story;

"Flying in No.3 position I witnessed Oberfeldwebel Sattler ahead of me dive into the ground seconds before we reached them. It seemed impossible for the crash to be from enemy action."

Unknown to Reschke the New Zealander Short had managed to fire at Sattler in a quick pass before being attacked by Aufhammer. Friend and foe now started a turning match that seemed to last forever. Neither could gain the advantage and after 15 minutes the two pilots broke away and returned to their respective bases - glad to be able to fly home in one piece.

In the meantime Reschke and Mitchell were also in mortal combat.

"So now it was two against two as the ground level dogfight began. We knew the Tempest to be a very fast fighter, used by the British to chase and shoot down our V-1's/ But here, in a fight which was never to climb above 50 metres, speed would not play a big part. The machines ability to turn would be all important.

Pulling ever-tighter turns I got closer and closer to the Tempest, never once feeling I was even approaching the limit of the Ta's capabilities. And in order to keep out of my sights the Tempest pilot was being forced to take increasingly dangerous evasive action. When he flicked over onto the opposite wing I knew his last attempt to turn inside me had failed.

The first burst of fire from my Ta-152 caught the Tempest in the tail and rear fuselage. The enemy aircraft shuddered noticeably and, probably as an instinctive reaction, the Tempest pilot immediately yoked into a starboard turn, giving me an even greater advantage.

Now there was no escape for the Tempest. I pressed my gun buttons a second time, but after a few rounds my weapons fell silent, and despite all my efforts to clear them, refused to fire another shot. I can no longer remember just who and what I didn't curse. But fortunately the Tempest pilot did not recognise my predicament as he'd already taken hits.

Instead he continued desperately to twist and turn and I positioned myself so that I was always just within his field of vision. Eventually - inevitably he stalled. The Tempest's left wing dropped and he crashed into the woods immediately below us."

The young New Zealander was killed instantly and in a quirk of fate his aircraft crashed less than 500 metres from the German pilot Sattler. The Luftwaffe technicians recovered the two pilots' bodies that evening.

The next day Mitchell and Sattler were buried side by side with full military honours in the Cemetery Neustadt-Glewe. During the funeral Oberfeldwebel Willi Reschke stood guard of honour in front of the coffins.

It is fitting to end this story here by allowing these two relatively unknown pilots - each flying arguably the most advanced piston-engined fighter produced by their respective nations to see service in the air war over Western Europe - to represent the many thousands on both sides who had gone before.

Footnote:

In 1947 the body of Owen James Mitchell was reinterred in the British Military Cemetery in Heerstrasse, Berlin. The Missing Research and Enquiry Unit who recovered the body in September 1947 noted;

"We visited the area (now in the Russian Zone) and found Body No. 1. This body was found to be clothed in khaki battledress and had New Zealand marked on the shoulder. The socks were RAF blue and the boots RAF escape type flying boots. On a handkerchief found in the pocket I found the name Pettitt in print letters, about ¼ inch high on the hem."

Owen Mitchell, the New Zealander from Nelson was killed 18 days before the end of hostilities.

heh even Ta-152Hs outran a mustang!

see Wilbus's sig

"The Ta 152 was my life insurance in the last days of the war."

Willi Reschke

[Krusty]

Originally posted by moot
I once had the patience to drag a spit14 up to 45k or so.
At that height, compared to the spit, it still flew like a down-syndromed hydrocephalic leper on morphine... no contest..
It was actually worse than down low.

damn, man! I'd have said a down-syndromed hydrocephalic leper, but a down-syndromed hydrocephalic leper on morphine??

You're a harsh man...

[Krusty]

Kev: According to Guppy the XIX was a super high alt recon version, that flew on well after the war when even jets couldn't reach it up at 48k.

Maybe they wanted a plane similarly suited to high alts to compare it to?

[Larry]

Originally posted by Brooke
It was named the "Ta" for "The Ark" (using the English words to throw off enemy intelligence agencies, as "Ta" in German stands for completely different things).

UUhhhh the Ta in Ta152 stands for the guy who designed it.