Good news from Russia

[Russian]

So Russia is selling its old missile systems....How old is Tor-M1? 10? 20? 30 years?

And why can't Iran defend its own airspace again?......

[Maverick]

Originally posted by Boroda
Exaggerating? Syrian MiG-23MLs shot down several F-15s, it's a fact.

It's absolutely true what he says and he has the screen shots from the game to prove it.......

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Maverick
It's absolutely true what he says and he has the screen shots from the game to prove it.......

Sorry, I've read detailed reports in Russian. Israelis got into an ambush with MiG-21s as a bait, AFAIR 23s shot down 2-3 F-15s, trading them for 2-3 21s before "blue" side got reinforcement. Should I look for a source in Russian?

I also absolutely love the Western way of counting losses, in this case noone ever mentiones "blue" side planes shot down by Syrian SAMs. Soviet "advisors" there were complete PVO units that got high awards back home. Even old S-75s, being mobile with a few launchers and a control truck working on manual tracking shot down many enemy planes, being too "agile" to be hit. AFAIK Serbs used same tactics in 1999, "launch and run". BTW, how comes that NATO losses in Yugoslavia were lower then on training flights?

[Dago]

Originally posted by Boroda
So far all American "achievements" were against third-world countries, exausted by decades of siege.

Shoot down any SR71s?  Those were a good 30 years old when retired.

[indy007]

Originally posted by Boroda
Sorry, I've read detailed reports in Russian. Israelis got into an ambush with MiG-21s as a bait, AFAIR 23s shot down 2-3 F-15s, trading them for 2-3 21s before "blue" side got reinforcement. Should I look for a source in Russian?

That'd be cool. I've been googling it for awhile now, still haven't come up with anything other than what I already posted.

During the Six-Day War, the Israeli Air Force achieved absolute air superiority by eliminating the entire opposing Arab air forces on the first day of fighting. On June 5, 1967, in a massive coordinated raid employing special Durandal and conventional bombs, rockets and strafing, the IAF destroyed the entire Egyptian air-force while most of the Egyptian planes were still on the ground. By the end of the day the Syrian and Jordanian air forces were wiped out as well. The IAF shoot-down record at the end of the war was a claimed record of 451 enemy aircraft downed versus 10 downed of its own. While this operation was taking place, only a handful of aircraft were left to guard Israeli skies.

September 11, 1969: IAF planes shot down 11 Egyptian jet fighters in dogfights.
September 26, 1969: IAF Super Frelon and CH-53 Sikorski helicopters carry paratroopers in a raid to "hijack" and airlift back an advanced Soviet P-12 radar deployed in Egypt near Suez. A Ch-53 Helicopter carried the 4 ton radar back, tethered under it.
January 7, 1970: the IAF start performing deep strikes on Egyptian targets, in order to force them to cease artillery and commando attacks on Israeli forces arrayed along the east side of the Suez Canal.
July 30, 1970: the IAF shot down 5 Egyptian MiG 21 (Mikoyan-Gurevich) fighters, flown by Soviet pilots sent by Moscow to "show the Egyptians how to deal with the IAF".

In the Yom Kippur War the IAF suffered heavy casualties from Soviet anti-aircraft surface-to-air missiles but managed to regroup and assist IDF's ground forces and later bomb infrastructure targets in Syria and Egypt. IAF helicopters proved to be highly useful in logistics and rescue efforts (MedEvac). During that war, the IAF lost 102 planes while the Egyptian Air Force lost 235 and the Syrian Air Force lost 135.

June 8, 1982 - the Peace for Galilee operation: The destruction of the entire Soviet-Syrian air-defence system in Lebanon within few hours without a single warplane lost; Syria with the U.S.S.R built up an overlapping network of surface-to-air missiles, and the density of SAM site locations was unmatched anywhere in the world including the U.S.S.R. itself. Also the IAF achieved in dogfights a total of 80 Syrian planes shoot-downs, without a single Israeli plane being shot down.

That's all from answers.com

Sounds like a highlight reel for the IAF... but I'm sure it's a conspiracy

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Dago
Shoot down any SR71s?  Those were a good 30 years old when retired.

Well, shot down some U-2s, that SR-71s never entered areas covered by main PVO structures. I wonder how long an SR-71 could last over Sverdlovsk in 1980. In fact - noone cared about Blackbirds making hi-res photos of empty tundra. Otherwise - it could be quite simple to make a missile ambush for them. I mean - deploying a basic S-200 complex in the above-mentioned tundra with Mi-10 helicopters. On paper S-200 could be ready to shoot in 14 hours after delivery. But, again - noone cared. PVO was simply watching USAF wasting millions on counting reindeers.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by indy007
That's all from answers.com

Should I quote something like udaff.com?

I love this one: July 30, 1970: the IAF shot down 5 Egyptian MiG 21 (Mikoyan-Gurevich) fighters, flown by Soviet pilots sent by Moscow to "show the Egyptians how to deal with the IAF".

Did they catch any Soviet pilots? No? Then maybe noone was shot down?

I love it. Especially after I saw some wrecks from Israely planes in PVO museum.

[FUNKED1]

Originally posted by Boroda
Projectors and anti-aircraft baloons?... And people on the roofs with sand-buckets and tongs?... Oh, they probably fly too high for baloons...

Those weapons have as good a chance as a SAM against the B-2.

[indy007]

Originally posted by Boroda
Should I quote something like udaff.com?

I love this one: July 30, 1970: the IAF shot down 5 Egyptian MiG 21 (Mikoyan-Gurevich) fighters, flown by Soviet pilots sent by Moscow to "show the Egyptians how to deal with the IAF".

Did they catch any Soviet pilots? No? Then maybe noone was shot down?

I love it. Especially after I saw some wrecks from Israely planes in PVO museum.

So do I, but to the original question... were they F-15 wrecks?

[Dago]

Originally posted by Boroda
Well, shot down some U-2s, that SR-71s never entered areas covered by main PVO structures.  

How would you know they never entered areas?  Do you think the Commies are actually going to print in  Pravda, "SR71s flew over but we couldnt hit them"?

Russias technical ability is limited to the technology that Russia has stolen.

After reading enough of your posts, like most of the others I have to believe you are either one huge troll king, or one of the most deluded propagana filled suckers the world has ever seen.  Hard to believe you are dumb enough to believe the nonsense you type.

[1K3]

hi

What is PVO?

Well, shot down some U-2s, that SR-71s never entered areas covered by main PVO structures. I wonder how long an SR-71 could last over Sverdlovsk in 1980. In fact - noone cared about Blackbirds making hi-res photos of empty tundra. Otherwise - it could be quite simple to make a missile ambush for them. I mean - deploying a basic S-200 complex in the above-mentioned tundra with Mi-10 helicopters. On paper S-200 could be ready to shoot in 14 hours after delivery. But, again - noone cared. PVO was simply watching USAF wasting millions on counting reindeers.

SR 71s never really covered all Soviet airspace?

[1K3]

Russias technical ability is limited to the technology that Russia has stolen.

gotta think twice before saying that...

[nirvana]

I think what we have here, from both U.S. and Russian governments is an attempt to possibly cover up losses or inabilities.

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong just be careful what you say and don't believe everything you read on the internet, Boroda, Indy...

[Yeager]

never understimate russian military engineering.  Their manufacturing methods may seem a bit crude but they are capable of tremendous work.  Best in the world in many cases.

[Yeager]

http://www.au.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/short_studies/USAFMannedAircraftCombatLosses1990_2002.pdf

Im not sure about the authenticity or reliability of the linked PDF but it makes for interesting reading.