Author Topic: Speed vs flap deployment for 109 (Read 750 times)

Morpheus · « **on:** December 05, 2005, 01:24:37 PM »

Speed vs flap deployment for 109E. These speed/flap deployment figures remained virtually unchanged for all 109 variants.

Flap deployment is currently modeled wrong in Aces High on all 109 variants from E through K.

AKFokerFoder+ · « **Reply #1 on:** December 05, 2005, 04:45:32 PM »

Since I am clueless on German language and the actual meaning of the chart.

But it would seem that the 109 could deploy flaps at over 400 kph, that is over 240 mph. ????

OOZ662 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 05, 2005, 06:24:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
Since I am clueless on German language and the actual meaning of the chart.

But it would seem that the 109 could deploy flaps at over 400 kph, that is over 240 mph. ????

Looks to be about 25 degrees of flaps at 400 kph. That really isn't that much; probably between combat and takeoff settings.

Morpheus · « **Reply #3 on:** December 05, 2005, 08:05:07 PM »

It is alot more than "really not much". And they go down at higher speeds than 240mph. The flaps in the 109 were lowered by the wheel in the cockpit (on the left beside the seat). The other wheel is for the stab trim. The flaps could be lowered to any angle. The flaps did not have a flap position called 'combat' like on the P-51. As can be seen in the graph, they could be lowered 10 deg @ 800kph. This is for the E but is applicable for the other models.

This is far different from what is currently modeled in Aces High.

AKFokerFoder+ · « **Reply #4 on:** December 06, 2005, 05:57:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Morpheus
It is alot more than "really not much". And they go down at higher speeds than 240mph. The flaps in the 109 were lowered by the wheel in the cockpit (on the left beside the seat). The other wheel is for the stab trim. The flaps could be lowered to any angle. The flaps did not have a flap position called 'combat' like on the P-51. As can be seen in the graph, they could be lowered 10 deg @ 800kph. This is for the E but is applicable for the other models.

This is far different from what is currently modeled in Aces High.

10 degrees at 800kph (480 Mph) is a big thing.

Just as 25 degrees of flaps at 240mp would make a 109 turn with a SpitV.

Hell with 25 degrees of flaps, you may turn so fast you't shoot your own tail off. Would that be a kill shooter or what!

190s had better flaps than modeled in AH2 also.

Krusty · « **Reply #5 on:** December 06, 2005, 06:17:49 PM »

out turn a spitV? Hardly! Handy as heck? Definitely!

AKFokerFoder+ · « **Reply #6 on:** December 06, 2005, 08:08:13 PM »

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Originally posted by Krusty
out turn a spitV? Hardly! Handy as heck? Definitely!

I believe that I said "turn with a Spit V". A bloody 109F4 can just about turn with a SpitV now.

HT took away the F4's guns, porked the front views, and seemed to have "corrected" the FM to make it turn a little poorer than the pre-patch 2.6. Give the F4 some flaps and it would really turn sweet.

The G2 would rock with flaps and so would the old G6 (the one that had guns). And imagine a G10 with 10 degrees of flaps at over 300 mph?

Even now the 2.6 version German pigs (meaning with the AH2 FM) might be worth flying with flaps.

I am back to the 190A8, the Dora, and of course the Spit16.

I have no preference for German iron. In fact, stating my personal opinion of the WW2 Luftwaffe would get my post banned for flame. Maybe HT shares my political views of the LW, but really there should be no bias in this day and age. Anyways, this is a game, I don't consider politics when chosing a ride, WW2 is over.

But it would be nice to be competative in something other than a Spit or La.

I would fly really like to fly American iron, especially the F4Us. But the AH2 50 cals aren't much more than pathetic pea shooters. And the only really decent guns package in an American ride is perked (C Hog). The Jugs are just well, Jugs. More like flying bricks really. The Pony is sweet, but I hate having to sit on a bogeys six for several seconds to eventually saw a wing off. And forget attacking a buff with 50s unless you like to die to get a kill.

The Main Arcade is a cannon arena no doubt.

Morpheus · « **Reply #7 on:** December 06, 2005, 09:27:34 PM »

Quote

Maybe HT shares my political views of the LW, but really there should be no bias in this day and age.

I dont see any political bias. Rather a mistake in modeling. I am sure its not any deaper than that. So I really dont think anyone should dig any deaper.

Kev367th · « **Reply #8 on:** December 07, 2005, 04:50:53 PM »

Wonder if he can also the model that as you are dropping flaps you cannot change the throttle.
Applies to all aircraft with manual flaps, hand used for throttle was the same hand used for flap control.

TequilaChaser · « **Reply #9 on:** December 07, 2005, 06:02:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+

I would fly really like to fly American iron, especially the F4Us. But the AH2 50 cals aren't much more than pathetic pea shooters. And the only really decent guns package in an American ride is perked (C Hog). The Jugs are just well, Jugs. More like flying bricks really. The Pony is sweet, but I hate having to sit on a bogeys six for several seconds to eventually saw a wing off. And forget attacking a buff with 50s unless you like to die to get a kill.

The Main Arcade is a cannon arena no doubt.

ROFL, only if you let the others brain wash you into thinking that. I very much prefer the F4U-1 or the Fm-2 or the P47D11 , I find no trouble with the 50 cal guns. They are worth getting you 2 to 8 or 10 kills depending on your gunnery per sortie..........all be it you don't get ganged that is........

so many think, if I don't have cannons, I am gonna lose for sure , just isn't the case at all........ one lone F4U-1 with 6 50s can attack a grp ( count 3 ) Lancs or Ki-67's and saw them up with ease then still have enough ammo left over to go down 3 or 4 more other baddies......... trying to down a set of B-24s or B-26s is very much harder, but still doable, just got to use slashing attacks on them and stay fast.......

back on subject- only bf109 worth flying to me is the 109G2 and if you do anything remove the slats, I simply just hate them! 109s were much more fun before the slats got here!

Schatzi · « **Reply #10 on:** December 07, 2005, 06:13:17 PM »

Speaking of cannons..... I dont miss them.

8 MGs are plenty. You just have to learn to be patient with your gunnery. The closer to convergence distance, the more devastating the effect.

I can shoot a wing off a Spit with 200 rds 303s, or kill a 110 with 300.

AKFokerFoder+ · « **Reply #11 on:** December 07, 2005, 09:48:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by TequilaChaser
ROFL, only if you let the others brain wash you into thinking that. I very much prefer the F4U-1 or the Fm-2 or the P47D11 , I find no trouble with the 50 cal guns. They are worth getting you 2 to 8 or 10 kills depending on your gunnery per sortie..........all be it you don't get ganged that is........

so many think, if I don't have cannons, I am gonna lose for sure , just isn't the case at all........ one lone F4U-1 with 6 50s can attack a grp ( count 3 ) Lancs or Ki-67's and saw them up with ease then still have enough ammo left over to go down 3 or 4 more other baddies......... trying to down a set of B-24s or B-26s is very much harder, but still doable, just got to use slashing attacks on them and stay fast.......

back on subject- only bf109 worth flying to me is the 109G2 and if you do anything remove the slats, I simply just hate them! 109s were much more fun before the slats got here!

I was on a 3 pack of JU-88s with a F4u-1, I bounced the one on the left, and sat on his tail for about 3 seconds of letting him have it. Lit him up like a christmas tree. He picked me off with his pea shooters, I hit the water, and he flew off smoking and missing a few parts. All guns were set to 400yards. This happened about a week ago.

Last night I took a F4U-1 up, and sat on the tail of an IL2 for about 2 seconds, and he went down.

And as for buffs, I put 4-5 hits from an Ostwind into a B24 the other night, and only got an assist. I think I filmed that one, not sure. I have hit buff with 3 hits lots of times and no smoke, no assist. 1 hit from and Ostwind does nothing to a buff, 2 hits maybe an assist if lucky 3 hits, maybe a kill. 4 hits likely a kill, 5 or more hits means he's doing a dive bomb on you and you will die after he does.

I have flown cannon planes ever since the ENY system took effect. I used to fly the PonyD. But not being able to fly the Pony most of the time, I felt it best to learn a plane that had a much lower ENY, yet had some killing potential. I settled on a 190A8 with 4 20mms. Nasty fire power, I was almost mesmerized the first couple of kills. Later I went to the 109F4, and G6. I learned to love the 30mm for killing buffs. No more sitting on the buffs tail as he ripped me apart. One slash, one kill, gotta love that

TequilaChaser · « **Reply #12 on:** December 07, 2005, 09:57:13 PM »

got 2 B24s tonight with a P40E and got 2 more B24s with an F4U-1 and landed em both, was some fun

oh yeah and a lancaster to boot....

I admit them cannons make easy work out of anything with just a few plinks, I don't find boom and zoom to fantastic and their maybe just a handful of people like Nath who can E-fight in a 109 or an FW...... most all others just boom and zoom with 4+K extending revs to try and get a HO, gets old....

Morpheus · « **Reply #13 on:** December 08, 2005, 12:39:03 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kev367th
Wonder if he can also the model that as you are dropping flaps you cannot change the throttle.
Applies to all aircraft with manual flaps, hand used for throttle was the same hand used for flap control.

I think its comical how this was a non issue before the "Luftwhiners" got their way and got pyro to agree to finally fixing the planes. You crack me up kevin.

Also, this wouldnt mean snot as far as i am concerned. Chop throtle and in the blink of an eye start grabbing flaps. Whats so hard about that?

Keep trying harder though, its fun to watch you like this.

Kev367th · « **Reply #14 on:** December 08, 2005, 05:22:06 AM »

Notice I said it 'applies to ALL manually deployed' aircraft.
It just hadn't occured to me earlier that as they were manually wound down the pilot had to use the hand normally used for the throttle.
Hardly the blink of an eye when it takes 30-40 secs to deploy full flaps, so I guess any part of that would be directly related in time.

Nobody has still come out with a definative the chart is showing TAS or IAS?