Canada, let's see how tyrannical we can get.

[1K3]

i dunno Canadia politicks but is Canada still part of the *Commonwealth*?  Do king/queens still have big influence there?

[CAV]

The purpose of registration is so the government has a record of who has weapons and what type.

Why does any government need to know about something that I have right to own???

CAVALRY

[Gman]

The gun boards here in Canada are going beserk.  This law will put me and thousands others out of business, as well as confiscate billions of dollars of property that Canadians have paid tax on.  It also opens a pandora's box when it comes to gov't seizing things they don't like, or consider "contrary to the common good", ie SUV's, stuff like that.

The NRA is making BIG noise about trying to get involved up here in this election, but it's too late, the Liberals will win, so say all the polls, and this law WILL be passed, as average Canadian in Ontario, where most of the votes are, are ignorant to the fact that there is over 1.5 million handguns registered in this Country, and I can count on my hands how many of those have been used to shoot somebody this year.

Toronto has had 70+ murders with guns this year, and ALL the handguns used that they have recovered are un-registered smuggled from the USA guns, and nearly ALL of those shot are...BLACK.  Maybe we should ban black people in Toronto instead, as stupid as it sounds, I bet it would work better than what the Liberals are proposing, to confiscate everything, INCLUDING all semi auto military style rifles, non bird gun shotguns, etc.

I know a lot of people that WILL fight if (more like when) the poor RCMP guys come around to take away their stuff.

Me, I'll just frickin move and work for a US private military company instead of a Canuck one.

[storch]

I hate butting in to political discussions pertaining to foreign issues because it's none of my business but it seems to me that people generally deserve the government they have.  if you people are indeed a free people then the will of the people will prevail.  personally I see you canadians as the guinea pig wards of a whimsical nanny state.  it's a shame really because all the canadians I know seem like really nice folk, of course most of the canadians I know are now residents of United States of America.  here's a deal, all you normal canadians that want to, move down and we'll send up all our pony tailed balding ward churchill type liberals, homosexuals, miscreants and the people from california.  that should make both groups of people happy.  If you like cold weather the states of montana, north dakota, minnesota and michigan's upper peninsula are very canada like and under populated.

[Maverick]

Originally posted by weaselsan
The purpose of registration is so the government has a record of who has weapons and what type.

The only purpose to require registration and licensing is to be able to restrict or deny the ownership of that object requiring registration. Licensing is lending the weight of law on the side of those requiring the license. When you have an object that is licensed there is legal justification to deny the license if the issueing authority wishes to do so. Look at the locations that require a permit to own, not carry a weapon. You must provide documentation satisfactory to the issuing authority to own it. The same for even mundane objects like vehicles.

If anything is licensed, it is subject to terms of use or ownership at the discretion  or satisfaction of the isuing authority. It is not a right.

Example:

You must own a permit (license) to operate the vehicle. To own it you must have a registration and documentation for fees paid to have it. Failure to have the required documentation will result in loss of the property if you use it. Failure to comply with a time period for transfer of ownership is also a violation of licensing laws. A mechanics affidavit is required for even an inoperative vehicle to give an extension on the licensing time period.

In some cases merely storing the vehicle without current registration on your premisis is sufficient to have a summons issued and later the property removed. It will be returned after you pay the required fees and maintain it in running condition as if it sits idle for a stipulated time ON YOUR PROPERTY it will again be towed. When this little law was passed it was on the basis of "neighborhood beautification".

No I'm not kidding, this is the crux of abandoned or junk vehicle statutes currently in force.

Here is a definition for license:
liĄPcense [ lÇ|ss'nss ]


noun  (plural liĄPcensĄPes)
 
Definitions:
 
1. permit: a printed document that gives official permission to a person or group to own something or do something

 
2. U.S. law legal authorization: official permission to do something, either from a government or under a law or regulation

 
3. U.S. chance to do something: the opportunity to do something, especially when this goes beyond normal limits
a license to print money

[detch01]

The handgun ban is a pig in a poke. In Martin's "plan"  provinces will be able to opt out if they so choose. The handgun ban idea was floated for political reasons, to whit:
 - Bring the Alliance party extreme right nut-cases to the surface in the Conservative Party to scare the left-wing nut-cases into voting liberal and pull the centrist vote away from the tories;
 - Push the champagne socialist and his spineless party even further to the left.
Does that mean the handgun ban is all smoke and mirrors and won't really see the light of day in the new parliament? No.
It will absolutely be brought up in the house regardless of who wins the election (if you can call having the largest minority in the house a win) and it will fail regardless of who sits in the PM's chair in the new parliament (barring of course, a liberal majority gov't). Whoever runs the gov't must contend with the block-quebecois and they most likely won't support a handgun ban unless it applies to all provinces, excepting of course quebec.
And while it is mostly smoke & mirrors (the provinces will be able to opt out which means quebec, BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan right off the bat won't be getting involved in this stupidity) it will have some teeth:
The current handgun restrictions (since 1934-ish IIRC) already impose a ban on owning them legally for most people. To legally acquire and retain ownership of a handgun in this country requires that you as an individual have a legally acceptable reason for it and there are only 2 acceptable reasons under the law: being a registered target shooter (& belonging to a registered gun-club IIRC) or being a registered collector. Martin's plan removes the collector catagory and supposedly limits target shooters to five weapons (I'm not 100% sure of the last clause).
Ultimately, even if it does wind up being law it won't reduce the number of handguns on the streets of Canada. The last time I put 1 or 2 milliseconds of thought into it I came to the conclusion that criminals and those not currently in compliance with existing gun laws probably tend not to be too interested in registering their weapons with the authorities voluntarily. It will however turn current collectors in the provinces that do involve themselves in this into liars or law-breakers.


asw

[vorticon]

"- Bring the Alliance party extreme right nut-cases to the surface in the Conservative Party to scare the left-wing nut-cases into voting liberal and pull the centrist vote away from the tories;"


actual result will be the loss of all seats west of winnipeg to the conservatives, the potential for a few losses in quebec and the maritime to NDP or bloc, and the solidifying of there  choke hold in urban ontario and quebec

[detch01]

Originally posted by vorticon
actual result will be the loss of all seats west of winnipeg to the conservatives, the potential for a few losses in quebec and the maritime to NDP or bloc, and the solidifying of there  choke hold in urban ontario and quebec

True enough as far as the west is concerned but when you look at how many seats the liberals currently have in the west it really isn't much of a loss. From Martin's POV it's good political strategy to limit the oppo's gains to where they are strong anyway. Elsewhere in the country I think Martin's going to make gains. There are left-wing constituencies to be had and potential tory wins to be blocked in central & eastern Canada and in montreal and that's what he's after IMO. The liberals also seem to be making a little progress elsewhere in quebec which none of the talking heads expected. Put it down to the current trend of rising popularity for the pq if the liberal gains in quebec wind up being real.
Unless Martin steps on his tongue between now and the election I think the division of spoils will likely be very similar to what we had in the last parliament - a liberal minority gov't, probably slightly larger; a tory opposition, possibly slightly larger, possibly smaller; and, the NDP pushed further into irrelevance.
The only reason we're having this election is that the champagne socialist got his panties in a twist when Martin wouldn't let him play at being the power behind the thrown anymore. And by getting pissy and jumping the fence Layton might have actually (although almost certainly accidentally) done some good for the country in the long run. If the tories don't win at least a enough seats to cut into the minority the liberals had Harper is going to be looking for a job. And that will finally remove the last real hold the Alliance  have in the halls of power in the tory party. And that means that the "Reform/Alliance/CRAP" episode will finally start to fade into obscurity.

One can always hope...


asw

[T0J0]

Originally posted by storch
I hate butting in to political discussions pertaining to foreign issues because it's none of my business but it seems to me that people generally deserve the government they have.  if you people are indeed a free people then the will of the people will prevail.  personally I see you canadians as the guinea pig wards of a whimsical nanny state.  it's a shame really because all the canadians I know seem like really nice folk, of course most of the canadians I know are now residents of United States of America.  here's a deal, all you normal canadians that want to, move down and we'll send up all our pony tailed balding ward churchill type liberals, homosexuals, miscreants and the people from california.  that should make both groups of people happy.  If you like cold weather the states of montana, north dakota, minnesota and michigan's upper peninsula are very canada like and under populated.

If every Ward Churchill type was moved to Canada the United States university
system would implode...  We would get over it though, and be better for it...

TJ

[SirLoin]

No news actually...the only thing that has changed is stiffer penalties for being in possession of an unregistered handgun...you can still own a handgun and go the the range.

but gun collectors are sure to be in a rage cause they gotta turn them all in...or go to jail.

now all the conservatives gotta do is promise madnatory 10 years prison for using a gun in a crime and they will win this issue(and perhaps the election)

leave the possession penalties pleadable(don't want cops to have to much power..ie planting guns)

[Squire]

There are something like 520,000 legally owned handguns in Canada, with a population of 35 million people, so, thats a lot of legal handguns.

They ain't getting mine, I already have plans for confiscation day.

The trouble with us is that we have no real body of governement above the Parliament at the federal level, the Senate here is not elected (they are appointed), and the Senate is more of a "rubber stamp" group for the party in power at the time.  This causes laws to go through with no real "2nd look" that can raise regional concerns.

We need an elected Senate with teeth in this country, that can act as a filter and as a check to majority rule in our House of Commons.

The only real check to bad legislation we have is the Supreme Court of Canada, which, as in the case of the USA, can strike down laws that breach our rights, but courts here are notoriously skewed in favor of anti-gun laws of any kind.

We have one Criminal Code, that is nation wide, the Provinces can also pass laws, but in areas regulatory in nature, unlike the USA where each state also has its own criminal statutes, so a criminal law passed here applies to all Provinces.

Thats my Canadian political lesson for today. There will be a test next week!

PS, do us all a favor Ontario, and stop electing those clowns. The Liberals need to be booted to the curb this time around.

[lasersailor184]

Well, let me be the first to say it.

If this law passes, revolt.  Start a revolution.

No person should stand idly by as their rights are wittled away.

[Gman]

We'll take care of you citizens, cradle to grave"
Said the Parliment to their now-unarmed slaves
"Trust us, if fewer of you carry arms,
The world will be safer from those who do harm"

"But what of Americans?" bleated the sheep
"What of the arms that they get to keep?"
"Don't worry", said Parliment, "Try not to be vexed."
"Our Democrat friends tell us they'll soon be next"






Sirloin, the Liberal definition of "target shooter" is somebody who competes in the Summer Games or Olympics with single shot pistols, that's on the books with this proposal.  FYI, EVERY single person who owns a handgun in this country is either a licensed collector (very few of these around, you have to sign away your rights to unwarranted searches, ie the cops can come anytime and check you storage facility/house), and "target shooters", which is the only other reason you can tell the Firearms Center why you need to possess a handgun or restricted rifle like the AR15.

Also, there are 1.2 million handguns registered, the other 1/2 from that 520,000 figure are 12-6 class (anything with a barrel shorter than about 4.25 inches), and there is already crap coming down previous to this recent crap ( I know a lot of crap) to make those "turn in for destruction" class, so, the Liberals are just subtracting that number in order to make it look more appealing to the taxpayers who will have to pay for the buyback.  Sort of like how they said there was 4 million handguns back in the 90's when they were trying to pass this abortion law we have now (C-68 under the firearms act).


GOOD NEWS:  My Premier (like a governer to ya'll down south) just told the feds they could **** their hats, and he would opt out of any law (we have legal ability to do this, called the notwithstanding clause of our charter of rights (or lack there of) ) that seizes handguns that are in legal possesion of us good common folk.  YAY!

I feel bad for the rest of the country though.

[SirLoin]

They taking it away from target shooters?...That is total BS...Nice how they hide that fact in smoke and mirrors.

holy cow!:mad:

[Masherbrum]

".......No you won't fool the Children of the Revolution."

Karaya