Missile Test Success

[Eagler]

U.S. Upbeat About Missile Test, Russia Blasts It
 http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010715/ts/arms_missile_usa_dc_13.html

Strange how some get upset by a strictly "defensive" weapon, yet don't say a word while weapon after weapon of mass destruction are built/maintained daily. Each with our name on one or another.
What do they think, we'd fire ours offensively if we knew that our defense net was 100%? Are they that insane? It's my understanding any country we are allied with now would be under such a net anyway.
I'm for it but think the next mushroom cloud will more than likely come from a suitcase, Ryder truck, etc. than a missile.

[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: Eagler ]

[mrfish]

the last time they had a missile defense test near here they fired a missile from los angeles area, over 350 miles south of where i live, meant to intercept a missile fired from very near australia.

the missiles were supposed to intersect somewhere over the pacific thousands of miles away. about 20 min after the test my front room lit up with a blue light - i looked out to the south and saw a huge bright blue fireball heading this way. all i could do was watch - i could even hear it it was so close. finally it broke into four smaller fireballs that fell into the ocean sw of san francisco.

i called kron tv like 5 minutes later and they said their phones were swamped with calls reporting the event. they interrupted tv programimg a few minutes later with a quick report promising more info in a few minutes. i left the tv on all night and never heard another word. i even emailed nasa and a local observatory andheard nothing. i dont know what the story was but i always had a suspicion that maybe that test didnt go so well.  

imo we need to ban all nukes right now - all of em & put a missile defense system in place and take our chances. it is much less risky statistically than having 10s of thousands of missiles active and waiting. if you want to read a good book about disarmament read ''the gift of time'' by jonathon schell. you might be surprised how many people,including old cold warriors share this view.

[Boroda]

Eagler, I agree with you about "the next mushroom cloud".

But it was an extremely stupid decision to perform this test when the Chairman of the People's Republic of China is in Moscow. For the first time since IIRC 1949. I don't count 1995 50 years of Victory celebrations, it was a visit of honour, nothing else.

They said - 2 warheads!? LOL! They said - telemetry failure!? ROFLMAO!!! YEAH!!! A Confirmed hit!!! 50% probability - it's a real achievement!!!

Muniteman-2?! The very same missile had fallen to Cuba in early-70s after an unsuccessful test-launch. Soviet engineers laughed to tears over that stone-age "hi-tech".

JFYI: USSR performed a first ICBM interception in 1963.

In early-70s, when the ABM treaty was signed, Soviet ABM systems could detect a real warhead in the cloud of false-targets and active jammers, and it was only the first-generation S-225 ABM, that was replaced by a smarter system in early-80s.

I am sorry, but I have to agree with comrade Putin: if US withdrawsfrom ABM treaty - then Russia automaticaly withdraws from all the strategic weapon treaties. We will have only to rearm our ICBMs with separatable warheads. Putin was right: noone will be able to find defence against it in nearest 50-100 years.

Another round of escalation?!

Well. Russia and China do have the guts to face total war, that US fortunately have never seen before. OK. Who'll be the first to press the Red Button?

I understand that the Missile Shield that protects me, here, in Moscow, can intercept no more then 5-10 warheads. It's what my Uncle said, who took part in this Shield development, after scoring 4 victories in Vietnam, and some more in Middle East as a SAM targeting officer. But US have chosen their "missile farm" in North Dakota as a region that will be protected by ABMs.

Maybe it's better to stick to status quo? The world's security is too fragile to play games with it...

The cold war was lost by the Red side 10 years ago.

Please, don't start it over. Don't wake the bear. Especialy the wounded bear.

[Tac]

and it all comes down to fear.

Well, at least I hope HT fixes the 38 before the nuke falls  

[Gadfly]

More like a Dancing Bear at this point.  I'll take my chances with your rusting silos, half stripped of blackmarket sold equipment, and un-paid military conscripts.

[Boroda]

Tac, it IS fear...

I am afraid for the young Russians who don't know what to do when they'll see a Flash...

I have an emergency ration, with first-aid, including anti-radiation drugs (standard Army kit plus some things like dibunol, a cure from radiation burns, from my work) in my always-ready forest backpack, to survive for at least 3 weeks even in winter. Everything packed for 2 persons. When at home - I can always hit the road in 5 minutes, after changing my clothes and picking up some things that better stay in refrigirator.

My Father has almost the same equipment along with his "officer's field bag".

Gas masks still in the closets, but ready for backpacks.

I renewed all the kits, except for the gas-mask cartrige that is too hard to replace now (i mean to get a standard Army upgrade for new chemicals) in 1999, when our trigger-happy NATO friends started a first war in Europe in last 50 years...

Hard to translate this Russian proverb - but god always protects the ones who already prepared themselves.

[Boroda]

Gaffly, don't you think that the bet is too high?

My Granddad was a commander of a Portable Rocket-Technical base in East Germany, storing atomic and hydrogen warheads for operation-tactical missiles. And I have no doubt that modern Russian missile facilities have the same mentaly-conditioned only-officers personell, that will perform a launch at any cost.

Another stunning experience was talking to a ballistic missile sub officer. They know that the sub will be destroyed by NATO hunters in a matter of seconds after they'll sink the first missile shaft, and probably will not have an opportunity to launch all their deadly load, but the guy was so dedicated that I understood that he'll do his job, commiting an obvious suicide, because it's the only purpose of his life...

Anothr guy I worked with was a driver of an S-300 SAM "special-warhead" truck. In case of a direct enemy attack on a conway he had to get to a special compartment, tie a mine to a warhead container with an ordinary rope, trigger it for 40 seconds, and then try to save his bellybutton from forthcoming toxic dispersion.

I myself was taught to handle the 5B28H (5V28N in Latin) SAM (studied as a 3PK C-200 TDH, or ZRK S-200 TDN officer) with 20 kiloton special warhead and 270x40km range, supposed to be used against B-52 formations crossing a possible-targeting range...

Don't fool yourself. Russia is ready to retaliate. At any cost. And no ABMs will save the people who'll dare to make a "massive launch".

It's our only way to survive.

And we'll have the guts to break this small globe in two if there is no other way.

[Boroda]

Sorry to post things like that.

I am sure that Americans are a great nation, brave enough too to tell the same things if they'll have their backs against the last wall.

Tried to search AltaVista for "Varjag cruiser" (BTW, built in Philadelphia), but found only a few links to WWIIonline...

[Toad]

Originally posted by Boroda:
Russia is ready to retaliate. At any cost.

Against what? Where's the threat?

[leonid]

Frankly, Boroda, I'm just amazed at Bush.  His hawkish posturing is only exceeded by his total disregard for international treaties.  It's sad to see a man so out of touch with the world, and even sadder that a significant, yet minor, proportion of the USA follows him blindly for no better reason than political alignment  

[Boroda]

Toad, I think that we can count the nations that have hydrogen warheads and the means of delivery by the fingers on one hand.

And the Russian nukes are the only protection against new 1941 now, especially after NATO spreading Eastwards, and fascist states like Latvia at our Western borders.

[Boroda]

Leonid, unfortunately I can say the same thing about comrade Putin  

If only 10 years ago someone said that a KGB "officer" can become a president of Russia - it could be considered a stupid sick joke.

That's why I am so scared...

[Toad]

Hey Leonid... ever heard of renegotiating a treaty?

Boroda, so say it out plain then.. you think the US is a threat to Russia? You think the US would _start_ a war with Russia?

[Boroda]

That war never ended, Toad  

US and Russia are both at war with the rest of the world.

For Russia another small loss equals to a loss of national independance.

For US such a loss will result in an economical collapse that Russia already passed.

What will probably save Russia as an independant state with traditional lifestyle is a military-type dictatorship, and a "disciplinary" reordering of a society, similiar to what Stalin did in the thirties, including political repressions and the dramatic violent changes in political elite.

The more I think about it, the deeper I believe in it  

For me - there are two ways to survive it. Run away like Miko2d, or just enjoy my guarantied ration as an Academy of science employee.

In this case the West that inspired all this pseudodemocratic changes in last 10 years will have to deal with what I wrote above as a serious, not hypothetic threat.

I hope I am simply paranoid.

[Toad]

I guess I'm still not understanding you.

Are you saying you think a military attack by the US on Russia is a real and current threat to your country?

I also fail to see where the US is "at war with the rest of the world".

Nor do I see where that is the case with Russia.