Author Topic: Missile Test Success  (Read 3474 times)

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #90 on: July 20, 2001, 08:42:00 AM »
Dnil, 2 F-14s were shot down by Lybians in March, 1986.

Here is an evidence from a guy who was a radar operator there. Now he flies WB with us. I don't want to translate it myself, you can use www.translate.ru

Опыт боевого применения ЗРК С-200 в СНЛАД в марте 1986 года.

После очередной политической склоки между Ливией и США, в марте 1986 года , в сиртовский залив пришла авианосная группа США в составе 2-х авианосцев и кораблей прикрытия. Для США это было достаточно привычная демонстрация силы.
В тот же момент в Ливии был завершен монтаж новой для СНЛАД (Социалистическая Народная Ливийская Арабская Джамахирия (республика ;)) системы ПВО – С200. Система уже функционировала, но запас ракет был ограничен из за срывов в поставках. Поэтому приход авианосного соединения был так же связан с развёртыванием новой системы ПВО. Я в тот момент в основном оказывал содействие группе наших советников по системе С-200 как переводчик и представитель дивизии ПВО Ливии.
С первого дня прихода в сиртовский залив, авиация США совершала провокационные полёты вдоль ливийской границы, особенно в районе сиртовского залива и «линии смерти». («Линия смерти» (Хат аль моут ;) была проведена почётным полковником Каддафи между двумя основными городами Ливии – Триполи и Бенгази ;). Основная задача данных провокаций- попытка вынудить выйти в эфир (включить на излучение передатчики ;) новой системы ПВО в районе г. Сирт и базы ВВС Ливии 2-й дивизии ПВО. Учитывая, что новая система ПВО была запущена не до конца, особенно в вопросах взаимодействия и опознавания самолётов, было принято (спорное ;) решение свою авиацию не применять. ВВС убрали в капониры, замаскировали.
Учитывая полное превосходство американцы стали наращивать присутствие авиации в воздухе. Доходило до 120-140 истребителей одновременно. Так продолжалось несколько дней.
Не получив необходимую информацию американцы пошли на прямую провокацию- около 14-00 по ливийскому времени «линию смерти» пересекли 2 истребителя США F14 «Томкет» с целью спровоцировать выход в эфир системы ПВО. В эфир было разрешено выйти только С200. Учитывая ограниченный запас ракет, командир бригады приказал открыть огонь 2-м каналам, но по одной ракете каждый. Американцы по видимому не обладали точной информацией по дальности поражения С-200 (>200 км ;) и надеялись совершить противоракетный манёвр, но обе ракеты успешно поразили оба истребителя, что мы собственно говоря и наблюдали по экранам ПРВ 17 (радиовысотомер комплекса С –200). (В первый раз немного жуткое зрелище.)
В течении нескольких минут авиация была возвращена на авианосцы. Наступило томительное ожидание ответного удара. Вся система ПВО 2-й дивизии ПВО СНЛАД была приведена в состояние боевой готовноси, мы все тоже убыли непосредственно на боевые места. Через несколько часов подготовки в воздух было поднято более 100 самолётов противника, при поддержке самолётов ДРЛО и РЭБ. (Ну началось-пронеслось в голове ))) Используя прикрытие активных помех в боевые порядки был запущен беспилотный самолёт разведчик, который так же был сбит при пересечении «линии смерти». Используя некоторое замешательство после поражения беспилотника, с нескольких направлений для провоцирования ПВО устремились истребители и штурмовики. При выходе в эфир дивизионов по ним наносились удары ракетами «Шрайк», наводящимся по лучу станции дивизиона ПВО. Но ни один дивизион не пострадал ,так как командиры во время выключали высокое и ракеты уходили выше или падали не долетев. Такая игра со смертью продолжалась несколько часов и в один из моментов боя по позиции С-200 был нанесен ракетный удар совершенно новыми ракетами «Харм»( с запоминанием курса излучения дивизиона ПВО ;). Удар был достаточно неожиданным и одна из ракет попала в кабину антенной системы С-200. Один из каналов был повреждён. Остальные ракеты прошли мимо и взорвались, одна досталась практически целой. (Это был очень важный момент-мы получили в руки уникальную ракету-ранее нигде не применявшуюся ;). Не взирая на упорное желание уничтожить 2-й канал американцам это не удалось, а нашими специалистами буквально за 24 часа был востановлен канал о чём сразу же стало известно американцам по кратковременным выходам в эфир канала. Это был настоящий шок для них и не желая увеличивать потери (не скрывая досады в радиоперехватах ) они посадили авиацию и ушли. Ушли отрабатывать тактику борьбы с данной системой ПВО.
Вернулись они через месяц… но это уже другая история ….

[ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: Boroda ]

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #91 on: July 20, 2001, 09:09:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda:
Dnil, 2 F-14s were shot down by Lybians in March, 1986.
Опыт боевого применения ЗРК С-200 в СНЛАД в марте 1986 года....
[ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: Boroda ]

I think it makes enough sense un-translated  :)
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Offline Boroda

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« Reply #92 on: July 20, 2001, 09:15:00 AM »
Wonder how this story looked from US side.

Any links on what happened in Lybia in 1986?

Offline Dnil

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« Reply #93 on: July 20, 2001, 11:23:00 AM »
haha what absolute bs boroda.  NONE were shotdown, unlike your lovely toejamhole of a country, all records are open to the public and news organizations here.  

why do we even listen to this known theif?

Offline Toad

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« Reply #94 on: July 20, 2001, 11:24:00 AM »
Like it or not Boroda, the evidence that Capitalism works and competition is good surrounds you.

Simply look at the nations that used those methods and compare them to the nations/countries that used or were FORCED to use Communism and little if any competition.

East Gemany vs West Germany? North Korea vs South Korea? Mainland China vs Taiwan and Hong Kong?

You can't deny that evidence.

I didn't twist your words, either. Go back and look again. Several times I asked you to clarify whether you were speaking ONLY of 1999/Kosovo or the entire Bosnian slaughter starting in 1992. Remember this?

"So you are going to post with a straight face that from 1992, when the Bosnian Serbs, assisted by the Federal Army of Serbia, attempted to carve out their own separate Serbian republic within Bosnia-Herzegovina, until the Dayton Accord in November 1995 there were only a total of "around 300 casualties"?"

I think you have deliberately sidetracked this part of the discussion.

Anyway, the point is that the airstrikes were generated by the LATEST slaughter in a long line of slaughtering. "Only 300 casualties" was 300 too many when added to the 159,000 before that. The Serbs just didn't realize that it was "the straw that broke the camel's back. (Don't start with the "illegal airstrike" stuff; I already agreed with you on that in case you didn't notice.)

There's nothing wrong with your "peasants" (quaint, archaic term; rather a negative connotation isn't it?) They know how to work. It's just that their work has been of no help in improving their lifestyle. Why work hard if there's no gain over working little? Your political/economic system screwed your agriculture, not your farmers.
They're not going to work hard until they see that there will be something in it for them if they do. Human nature; something Communism failed to take into account.

Once again, whether you choose to admit it or not, Russia has received huge amounts of aid from the USA over the years.

Once again, is this what an enemy would do? No, it isn't. Your paranoia probably won't let you admit it, however.

The Chechen war... first the important part:

Please tell me what is Russia's legitimate claim to rule Chechnya? Is it by right of conquest?

I repeat: "Under Nicolas I there was continual fighting in an attempt to bring them into the Empire, right? About 1859 Alexander II finally had the situation under "control"?

So Russia's "right" to Chechnya stems from the involuntary conquest of the Chechens in the second half of the 1800's?

The Chechens rebelled again and again, didn't they? Chechen insurrections were recorded again in 1862-1863, in 1877, in 1905, 1917-1925, in 1929-1936 and again in 1940-1951?

It doesn't sound like Russia ever fully conquered the Caucasus; now it's in "rebellion" again."

This history of continual fighting with only brief pauses that goes back to the early 1800's is Russia's justification for their current actions in Chechnya?

Please answer.

***********

Let's see... Soviet weapons have showed up in nearly every conflict around the world. Did the Soviet Union/Russia directly supply them to every single entity that used them in combat anywhere?

I asked for documentation. You tell me they found Stingers and uniforms in Chechnya. That isn't documentation that the US government directly supplied Chechen rebels.

Let's see... did Afganistan get a bunch of Stingers and US uniforms a few years back? Yes, indeed. Do the Chechens and Afganis share the same feelings about Russia? Oh, possibly. Could the Stingers have come from Afganistan? Most certainly. Does the US have any influence over Afganistan? Well, they're harboring Bin Laden and telling us to go p*ss up a rope when we ask about him.

Anyone can have ANY book printed in the US. All it takes is money. Free Press, remember? Sort of like Pravda and Isvestia used to be.   :D

They didn't slaughter Chechens, and left this problem for future.

If the history I'm starting to read is correct, Russian didn't slaughter the Chechens because the Chechens pretty much fought you Russians to a standstill every time you tried to slaughter them. Like right now, for instance. It certainly doesn't appear to be for lack of TRYING to slaughter them.

BTW, I think the American Indian did get very bad treatment from the beginning. The Spanish, English and French didn't treat them very well, although the French were undoubtedly the best of the three.

The US government that came after that didn't treat them very well either. I'm looking forward to some of the pending court cases with great interest. I think the Indians are going to win some major ones; good for them. It's overdue.

Don't worry, Boroda, you ARE paranoid..even without guys like B52 around. The only thing the US wants from Russia is for you guys to get a stable political system, a workable economy and to join in the progress of the rest of the world. We are NOT your enemy.

Dresden?

Russia's General Antonov made a specific request at Yalta for the Allied air forces to destroy transportation and communication facilities in the general area. I don't believe it was a direct request to hit Dresden, however.

When this request filtered down to the targeting agencies in Bomber Command and 8th AF, the planners determined that strikes on Dresden would, in part, fulfill this request from the Soviet Union. (I think the Leipzig area got targeted as well.. will have to check.)

Going from memory here, but I believe the February 1945 raids were the only time Dresden was targeted. Apparently, Dresden had NOT been on the targeting list until this request was received from the Soviet Union at the Yalta Conference.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #95 on: July 21, 2001, 11:42:00 AM »
Toad, I understand what "capitalism" means, and agree with you about E/W Germany etc. Also, speaking about Russian peasants you just repeated what I ment. I understand what "communist regime" is better then you - I lived under it.

Understanding the nature of capitalism, and, especially after reading Brzezinsky's book I have to say it loud: American "aid" to former USSR is destructive and aimed at destroying Russian state and economics. It's a sad fact. I don't quote so-called "patriotic press" and other looneys or commies, my opinion is based on a book by a former American high official.

About Chechen war.

Chechnya is a part of Russia by the right of conquer. Just like 99% of USA belongs to you.

The reason for Caucasian war that was started in Alexander I time, not in Nikolay I as you said, was to establish a common border and safeguard Georgia and other Caucasian Christian nations from Turkey and Persia. Usualy Russians didn't fight or "conquer" any nations, but in this case oyr brave highlanders lived by robbing caravans to Georgia and attacking Cossack settlements. In fact - Cossacks, the free people fought them for many years before Russian regular army interfered.

Chechens were defeated, and lived exactly as other nations in Russian Empire. In 1942-43 they statred their favourite business again: started to slaughter Russians and appealed to Hitler. On February, 23, 1944 ALL Chechens were... No, not slaughtered like American Indians. They were arrested and sent to Kazakhstan.

In late-50s Khruschev decided to bring them back, simply to show that Stalin was always wrong. What started in Grozniy was unbelievable by Soviet standards. After numerous murders and rapes, Russians workers living in Chechnya literaly took power, disarmed Militia, stormed the Republican Party comeetee and sent a petition to Moscow asking for protection from Chechens who statred to force Russian populatuiion to leave the republic.

There was no result. Many Russians simply ran away, and even Cossack lands North from Terek were given to Chechens.

It was relatively quiet until 1990-91. All that years Chechens got all possible dotations and benefits - just to keep them calm. In 1990 Dzhokhar Dudayev, former Soviet VVS general took power in Chechnya and declared open banditism as a national doctrine. BTW, my Father knew him, his Instirute built a runway for his Long-Range Aviation Division in Latvia, and he said that Dudayev was a typical uneducated highlander, who became a general only because of an idiotic Soviet national politics: every national minority had to have at least one general.

In 1991 thousands of Russian, Ukrainian, Jewish refugees started to leave Chechnya. The ones who stayed were robbed, enslaved (slavery existed in Chechnya even in happy Soviet times), or simply killed. Noone who didn't belong to Chechen clans (teips) felt safe there. Chechens again turned to their favourite business - robbery and armed attacks on nearby regions.

What amazes me is that Yeltsin waited until late 1994 to try to restore order there. Maybe one of the reasons was that Ruslan Khazbulatov, leader of one of the powerful teips was a Supreme Council chairman.

The other stage was obvious: Russian army entered Chechnya and started hostilities. At the same time some brass hats in Moscow discovered that this "war" is a good reason to hide stolen money. In 1995 almost billion dollars was sent to "restoration of Chechnya", and stolen by banks and companies that were contracted for "restoration under cannon fire". The best thing they did was a "present" to Russian soldiers there: a 1 dollar warm hat for everyone... The war continued, taking thousands of human lifes.

I am happy that now some kind of decisive measures were taken against terrorism, that now is fed by international Moslim organisations including your favourite Bin Laden. After explosions in Moscow, Buinaksk and Volgodonsk, that took more then 300 lives, after Chechen intervention to Dagestan - it was impossible to close the eyes on the problem.

Supporting Chechen terrorists means supporting the direct threat to the life of every Russian, to support people who maybe are planning to blow up MY apartment house right now.

Toad, excuse me, but I don't believe in Soviet General Staff commander requesting to bomb cities that are supposed to be under Soviet control. I'd like to see documents.

Toad, this thread turned into standard cold-war style throwing toejam at each other. It's entertaining, but useless as I said before.

Dnil, I hope that you can read Russian good enough to understand what I posted. If you don't - please, shut your respectable mouth. Maybe you'll say that no F-111s were shot down during the bombing of Tripoli later that year? You guys simply chew what your media feeds you, without a mere attempt to know where the truth is. US media is sometimes worse then Soviet media in 70s-80s.

As for calling me a "known thief" - I don't care. The dog barks, and the wind blows the barking away. We develop the product that was taken over by a gang of imbeciles and abandoned, and let everyone play for free, without even violating what they call EULA. If you don't agree with the laws of Russian Federation - go vote for bombing Moscow "to stone age". You have democracy, so your chances are quite good.

Offline Dnil

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« Reply #96 on: July 21, 2001, 10:42:00 PM »
you post no facts comrade, just some person stating he shot down 2 f14s.  There is no evidence from any other sources, just a rusian text, with my favorite quote of the honorable khadfi, gee i rest my case with that lovely statment.  Yes 1 f111 was down, causes unknown, probably triple a.  Hey whos the bright one here, you with the wonderful russian education or me the dumb american.  I make in an hour what you make in a month comrade.  Enjoy your stolen warbirds with your broken down economy and soon to be pimped out natural resources.  :rolleyes:

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #97 on: July 21, 2001, 11:46:00 PM »
Here comes so much expected americauberalles Dnil.

I DO respect colonel Kaddafi for his Green
Book. I bet that you didn't have an opportunity to read it.

Tomorrow I'll try to translate that beautiful evidence that contradicts Your media brainwashing CNN machine.

Toad is a great opponent, who knows almost everything he's talking about, and usualy backs his opinion with facts. But in this case - you'd better stop it. Two American planes were shot down over the Sirt gulf, by two S-200 targeting stations, one missile - one target. I'd call it 200% target destruction.

I wish anyone of you could see an S-200 missile takeoff, with concrete plates flying around like playing cards, thrown into the air by a 180ton exaust!

Dnil, try to inqire about what happened over the Sirt gulf in 1986...

Kaddafi is in the list of the "rogue nations" according to the US. I bet he is the most sane Arab politician.

If you don't know anything about US planes shot down over "the line of death" in 1986 - you'd better stop this "democratical" propaganda to convince me. I doubt that any American book or other source will admit that your Brave and Free fighter pilots were shot down by that "illiterate Arabs".

S-200 "Angara" is my military speciality. Senior Lt. - technical division, that guys wearing their insulating suits, gas masks, working in the brown oxydizer vapours, refueling the 11m long rockets.

At least we'll bring down your B-52 formations, with no problems - a 20kiloton warhead for any nuke bomber that will cross our borders.

And that B-52s were a great illumination over Hanoi. Was bright.

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #98 on: July 22, 2001, 12:38:00 AM »
"If you don't know anything about US planes shot down over "the line of death" in 1986 - you'd better stop this "democratical" propaganda to convince me. I doubt that any American book or other source will admit that your Brave and Free fighter pilots were shot down by that "illiterate Arabs"."

... guided by the voodka stuffed ruskies...
 
Nope, haven't heard anthing about it Bor as it didn't happen. Guess you'll tell us next you have the ejection seats. Do they give you a kiss when the bend you over and feed you this crap?
--------------------

found this:

"The 1-11 was AF-70 2389, and it was hit whilst still feetwet inbound to the
strike - they were the last 1-11 in the KARMA flight (KARMA 52) to strike
the Al Azziziyah Compound with 4 GBU-10/C's. Whilst the crew had been told
that theirs was the riskiest place to be in the whole package they had
declined to back out of flying the mission.

They did eject, but both drowned, possibly due to ejection outside of the
parameters of the capsual. They were: Capt Fernando Ribas-Dominicci AC and
WSO Capt. Paul Lorence. Fernando's body was returned in 1989, Paul has never
been returned."

Seems a second failed to return due to unknown causes. Zero Tomcats were destroyed.

Interesting thread here: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&safe=off&th=f91e299490e83971,30&start=20
Mission info here: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/el_dorado_canyon.htm

[ 07-22-2001: Message edited by: Eagler ]
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Offline Eagler

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« Reply #99 on: July 22, 2001, 08:18:00 PM »
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


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