Will the USA green up its act?

[dynamt]

I think I'll read Micheal Crichton's "State of Fear" again instead.

[Dago]

We dont have to worry about air pollution here in the USA, the prevailing winds blow west to east and this means all our airborne crap falls on beetles home.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by beet1e
Ah, I see nothing has changed, with Jack-all flatly denying there's a problem with the world's fossil fuel burn rate and the issues of running out of oil and ecolological disaster.
 

I have denied nothing. That`s where you get your spurs all tangled up in your bloomers. I usualy like some pretty solid evidence when a theory is proposed before either denying or accepting. What I have said is, basicaly, it don`t matter one way or the other. The problem, if it actualy exists will be taken care of before it reachs critical stage, or not. If it is, great. If not we won`t have to worry about it. Like I told you before, you need to go out and buy yourself a baseball bat to swat away those pesky, stray asteroids that might be headed to earth in the future. Just as feasable and just as much chance of you doing something about it. At least you would be doing SOMETHING, which you have allready admitted you are not doing on this issue. You`re just taking another chance to post and "Evil U.S. Empre" attempt, like I said. I know it, you know it and so does the majority here.

So Jack - I've been meaning to ask you. What do you think of this book? Can you provide me with a critique? I know you haven't read it, and therefore know nothing about it, but when has that ever stopped you from holding an opinion about anything? [/B]

[/QUOTE]

Well BeetOff, as you allready know, but I will point it out to you again, in the other thread, (You know the one that is discussing Mr. Roberts book`s and theories), this was layed out for you. Of course you haven`t watched the series. That is evident because this seems to be your first encounter on the subject whatsoever.
You just happened to find some statistics that you could use in your never ending "Evil U.S. Empire" crusade to make a tool out of yourself once again. I noticed , as does everyone else ,that you completely wish to ignore the facts concerning these statistics that my youngest grandchild can see through. We have a pulse rate above thirty here in the good ole U.S. of A.. We produce, feed, finance, supply and support a large portion of this little planet.
Once again, you have shown that you are not really interested in this subject with the exception of U.S. bashing. If you were , you would be doing something about it, but you have openly admitted you are not. You have also proven that you actualy know next to nothing on the subject itself other than the tidbit you are grasping and trying to put forth as a major concern. Get a grip. The envy will eat you up inside.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Jackal1
Once again, you have shown that you are not really interested in this subject with the exception of U.S. bashing. If you were , you would be doing something about it, but you have openly admitted you are not. You have also proven that you actualy know next to nothing on the subject itself other than the tidbit you are grasping and trying to put forth as a major concern. Get a grip. The envy will eat you up inside.

You said yourself that there was little any individual could do to make an impact [in the greenhouse gas emission total]. Indeed, even if the UK suddenly ceased to exist, greenhouse gas output would drop by only 2%. Maybe if I went out and built an orphanage it would make you feel better?

This thread was started in response to the aftermath of the Montreal summit. How can it be "evil empire bashing" when most of the sources I have quoted are Americans themselves? Answer: You're wrong.

We have a pulse rate above thirty here in the good ole U.S. of A.. We produce, feed, finance, supply and support a large portion of this little planet.

You and I can only dream of being so fit that we'd have a resting heartbeat of 30. I appreciate it's much higher where you live - to be expected in the land of supersized "snacks" and quadburgers.

[lazs2]

not a good arguement beet.... I have seen and eaten "english breakfasts".

lazs

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by beet1e
You said yourself that there was little any individual could do to make an impact [in the greenhouse gas emission total].  

Yes I did and i also said that if someone was TRUELY as interested in doing something as you would like us to beleive you are, you would join a GROUP to get something done possibly. But of course you are not really concerned about the issue. Maybe becuase you are reading the book that`s supposed to be your effort.

. Maybe if I went out and built an orphanage it would make you feel better?

Well at least you would be doing something, anything, instead just spouting off about a subject and trying to pass off a horse for a milk cow. But then again, I get the feeling that you eleive that atualy doing smoething, anything, is beneath you.

This thread was started in response to the aftermath of the Montreal summit

And once aain....if you are responding to the summit on this board , you took a wrong turn at Tulsa.

This thread was started in response to the aftermath of the Montreal summit. How can it be "evil empire bashing" when most of the sources I have quoted are Americans themselves? Answer: You're wrong.

Naw. I`m right on track. You know it, I know it and the majority here knows what the intent of this thread was. The problem is you wish to overlook the facts and dwell on the statistics number you found that suits your purpose. Just disregard reality and trudge on.

You and I can only dream of being so fit that we'd have a resting heartbeat of 30

I`m not buying that you are so dense that you didn`t understand that, but then again........................ ............................. ...........
That was a reference to the pace and activity of our country compared to others. We`re movers and shakers.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by beet1e
You and I can only dream of being so fit that we'd have a resting heartbeat of 30. I appreciate it's much higher where you live - to be expected in the land of supersized "snacks" and quadburgers.

I used to have a resting HR of about 45, since I had a fittness lifestyle that included commuting on my bicycle.  But since I was talked out of riding my bike due to the tremendous ecological and social damage during the manufacture of my bicycles tires, I have been talked out of that.  I have already gained a few pounds and I think I'll get a pizza delivered this afternoon and until then scarf down a few happy meals.

I take delivery on my twin Hummers in March.  Just to do my part until then I am just keeping a couple of oil barrels burning in the front yard.  

Thanks a bunch Beetle.

[lazs2]

mine runs about 72... allways has and.... most of it is not even my heart.

lazs

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Jackal1
Yes I did and i also said that if someone was TRUELY as interested in doing something as you would like us to beleive you are, you would join a GROUP to get something done possibly. But of course you are not really concerned about the issue. Maybe becuase you are reading the book that`s supposed to be your effort.

Oh yeah, well that would be just peachy - not. Can you imagine it - discussing it here when the problem exists in the land of the 4.6mpg Ford Excursion? Like I said, and as was pointed out in the figures published by the American Oak Ridge National Laboratory, the UK emits only 2% of the world's greenhouse gas. How would "joining a group" here do any good? That would be like rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. For greenhouse gas, the problem countries are 1) USA, 2) China - whether you like it or not. Part of the reason for China being in the #2 spot is because it produces a great deal of goods to be sold in the USA at outlets like WalMart, as China is America's third most significant trading partner. The only way to address the "greenhouse" problem is to tackle it at the source.  I suppose if asked for your answer for keeping flies out of the kitchen, it would be... to put butter and sugar in all the other rooms.

And once again....if you are responding to the summit on this board , you took a wrong turn at Tulsa.

And once again, no I wasn't. I was referring to the summit in Montreal, as I have stated about six times so far. The newspaper article is here.

Naw. I`m right on track. You know it, I know it and the majority here knows what the intent of this thread was. The problem is you wish to overlook the facts and dwell on the statistics number you found that suits your purpose. Just disregard reality and trudge on.

No, overlooking the facts is your speciality, and that of others who claim that CO2 output is constant, regardless of engine size, and/or that CO2 Output data as listed by Oak Ridge National Laboratory is "BS". Besides, what would be the point of debating this issue on a board in Greenland, or Senegal or Kenya? Those countries are not where the problem is, whereas there are MANY people on this board in the US, some of whom came up with interesting answers. Suits my purpose? The thread title is a question, and my input has largely been to reproduce material from American sources. So what "purpose" are you talking about?

No need to get so hot and bothered, Jack-all. Time to adjust that thermostat!  

HMcG - did you really have an HR of 45? That's very good!

Lazs, 72 is slightly better than average.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by beet1e
HMcG - did you really have an HR of 45? That's very good!

Yeah...  I was fitness oriented since I was maybe 12 yrs old.... then for some reason a few days ago I lost all my motivation.

I have been wondering... how would you explain the global warming of Mars, Jupiter and Pluto? (These have been measured and the polar ice of Mars is  smaller today than it was a few years ago.)

We cannot totally solve a problem unless we can fully understand and expain it and anthropogenic greenhouse gasses do not explain the extraterrestrial warming trend.

Or perhaps we should just ignore these data and continue present policy.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by beet1e
Oh yeah, well that would be just peachy - not. Can you imagine it - discussing it here when the problem exists in the land of the 4.6mpg Ford Excursion? Like I said, and as was pointed out in the figures published by the American Oak Ridge National Laboratory, the UK emits only 2% of the world's greenhouse gas. How would "joining a group" here do any good? That would be like rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. For greenhouse gas, the problem countries are 1) USA, 2) China - whether you like it or not.  

So, you are trying to prove my point for me again I see. Thanks. You joining a group "there" would at least be an effort. Posting about what is supposedly going on in our country is like telling a duck it can swim. We allready know what is being done here. We feed, clothe, support, finance and protect a good chunk of the real estate on this planet. Like I said ,and you seem to have a problem getting a grip on, we have a pulse rate of over 30 here. We are movers and shakers. Now we could stop all food production and transportation, but I don`t see that happening just because you might think it is the thing to do. The problem , if one actualy exists, will be solved or it won`t be. Either way will work.

 And once again, no I wasn't. I was referring to the summit in Montreal, as I have stated about six times so far.

And about six times you have been told that you took a wrong turn in Tulsa. This is the AH BBS O`club. Read the header. It will all come clear to you eventualy.................... .....or maybe not.

Besides, what would be the point of debating this issue on a board in Greenland, or Senegal or Kenya?  

The point would be that you would have a better shot at making this fly.
Maybe you couold get someone to buy into the "Evil U.S. Empire" crap. Here you don`t stand much of a chance.

No need to get so hot and bothered, Jack-all

BeetOff, "hot and bothered" has a meaning here that I`m sure you don`t understand, but I can also assure you that  a post on a message board won`t do the trick.

[Rotax447]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin

I have been wondering... how would you explain the global warming of Mars, Jupiter and Pluto? (These have been measured and the polar ice of Mars is  smaller today than it was a few years ago.)

Planetary heating and cooling on Mars is atmospherically regulated.  Solar radiation warms up the surface.  Warm air rises, mixing with the colder air in the atmosphere.  This creates storms, which kick up a lot of dust.  Dust is an efficient UV blocker.  Incoming UV is reduced, outgoing IR remains the same, and the surface cools down.  

Pluto works the same, except instead of dust, atmospheric nitrogen and methane undergo a phase transition.

Jupiter, is of course, under the control of the monolith.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Jackal1
So, you are trying to prove my point for me again I see. Thanks.

You're welcome. Have a nice day.  

You joining a group "there" would at least be an effort.

A futile effort - like trying to extinguish the recent Buncefield oil depot inferno with a garden hose.

We feed, clothe, support, finance and protect a good chunk of the real estate on this planet. Like I said ,and you seem to have a problem getting a grip on, we have a pulse rate of over 30 here. We are movers and shakers.

So you've said - about three times actually. Change the record.

Now we could stop all food production and transportation, but I don`t see that happening just because you might think it is the thing to do.

I never suggested that. But LOL - 4.6mpg SUVs?  

And about six times you have been told that you took a wrong turn in Tulsa.

I've never been to Tulsa, so I don't understand this reference. Please explain. Sorry if you already did, but hey - you seem to enjoy saying things over and over and over, and over and over and over...

The point would be that you would have a better shot at making this fly. Maybe you couold get someone to buy into the "Evil U.S. Empire" crap. Here you don`t stand much of a chance.

Hah - safety in numbers, eh? When have you ever known me to be cowed by the O'Club? My thread title asks a question. I now have answers. I hadn't fully understood Carl Sagan's exasperation in trying to convince key Americans of the urgency of this matter. Now I understand perfectly, and can see the pigheadedness that he must have come up against himself.

BeetOff, "hot and bothered" has a meaning here that I`m sure you don`t understand, but I can also assure you that a post on a message board won`t do the trick.

Oh! Well you seem to have devoted a considerable chunk of your time to this thread, if you think it "won't do the trick".

Toodle-Pip, and don't forget to lower that thermostat before you go to bed!

[Rotax447]

I remember years ago, there was a short article in Physical Review, on room temperature, superconducting, polymers.  

I see that there is now a startup company in California http://ultraconductors.com/

This is one of those ‘miracle’ technologies that Bush talks about.  The polymers have 100,000 times the conductivity of copper, at temperatures up to 750F (the tip of a cigarette).  Once production ramps up, this will be a true revolution in electronics.

[Skilless]

Originally posted by beet1e

Roberts speaks of the "house sized" Ford Excursion that he test drove. I think he was talking about the verion with the 6.8 litre V10 engine, as he got 4.6mpg when he test drove it. 4.6 miles per gallon? LOL - that's worse than American cars built in the 1950s! I've read the first ~45 pages - the prologue and the first chapter. Quite an interesting read so far.

 

You keep bringing up this "4.6-mpg" as if we all drive monster SUVs.  We don't.  The vast majority of responsible Americans on a budget commute in fuel-efficient vehicles.  The difference is DISTANCE TO DESTINATION.   You will never get it and I don't think you want to get it.  What your problem is, is what we call here "small man's syndrome"

You keep pointing across the pond at us saying, "It's all Amerikka's fault" and "it's all Booshes fault", but meanwhile you're taking a frivolous weekend excursion on a pleasure boat.  You're no better than the screaming tree-huggers out on the left coast crying about pollution and fuel consumption while REFUSING to invest in a viable mass transit system for themselves.  With you as well as them it's faily clear that this issue is not imporant enough for YOU to take ALL the necessary steps to meet the end in your goal; Everyone else must sacrifice for the greater good (but my boat trip isn't producing THAT much green house gas).

What the course of this thread has shown is that you are very upset (rightfully so) that your government has taxed you into submission.  Misery loves company eh?  I’m on to you.