Author Topic: Can Ram Model Be Fixed? (Read 2858 times)

Karnak · « **Reply #45 on:** December 11, 2005, 05:29:42 PM »

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Originally posted by wonton
.5 seconds is a terrible ping time. If your pings are hitting 500 milliseconds, you have some serious latency issues. Your math may be good but your connection stinks.

That would be total ping time, not just one player's ping time. .150 for Player A, .300 for Player B and .050 for the Server to do it's calcs for example.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #46 on:** December 11, 2005, 05:32:24 PM »

For the fifth time in this thread alone, it is not seeing the collision.

It's not like HT is sitting in a booth over the server and yells out, "Hmm, HE DIES NOW!"

If his plane hits your plane, you die. If your plane hits his plane, he dies.

If your plane hits his plane, but you don't see it, you don't die. If his plane hits your plane, but he doesn't see it, he doesn't die.

It ain't friggin rocket science. Though it would be funny if mandatory IQ tests came along with getting a subscription to AH.

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #47 on:** December 11, 2005, 05:38:38 PM »

In the case I saw, I was out in the Sturmi dealing with annoying PT dweebs and this P47 came screaming in from dead 6. Never saw him until I saw the collision message - wasn't looking for him really, was just goofing around. After we exchanged a few head-ons and he saw I wasn't going to just give him another tail shot he decided to ... run. So I went back to shooting PT's ... at point he zoomed (I was watching him this time) and came back and repeated the exact same move. Nose-to-tail collision, no damage.

Maybe it's pings. Who knows. But I can't think of a fighter which should run into a Sturmi once and walk away unscathed - let alone twice.

vorticon · « **Reply #48 on:** December 11, 2005, 05:42:07 PM »

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Originally posted by whels

they saw that 7 of the 10 collisions 1 plane only took damage even though they BOTH flew through to ram, and it was alway the better connect.

its been posted what they are before.

that of course, only applies to your very stringent experiment, in which, yes, the person the computer says is dead (since someone has to "lose") is the first person it sees as dead- of course, that has no relation to the realities of the game whatsoever.

Karnak · « **Reply #49 on:** December 11, 2005, 05:43:17 PM »

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Originally posted by Skilless
if two planes are flying directly at each other, and neither one attempts to avoid, the player with the least lag will see the collision. This is common sense.

The funny thing about common sense is that it isn't common and what if frequently passed off as common sense, isn't sense. Take what you just said for example. It looks reasonable and rational, but it misses a data point and so ends up flawed. It is close though, what it is missing is looking at the event from three perspectives instead of just one.

If the guy with high ping times sees the collision on his FE, his FE will then tell the sever that there was a collosion and his fighter took such and such damage. It is completely irrelevant what the other FE has already reported as far as the collision goes. Now if the ping time is bad enough on Player B then the server may very well award Player B and kill of Player A before it knows that Player B was also killed. I'm sure we have all had at least one or to instances of seeing both Player A and Player B getting credit for killing eachother. I certainly have.

Now, all of what I have said is strictly true under the assumption that there aren't any bugs, which there very well may be. I will not speak to that as I do not know.

The fact is that this subject comes up once every two weeks and it seems that the same people drive it each time. If it were just complaints about bugs I would understand, but it is frequently based to a large degree on disagreeing with the system and not understanding the problems with the alternatives. Slash27's "How freakn far apart am I supposed to believe we really are?" comment is very illuminating to this as it expresses high skeptisim that the ping times would be enough for the aircraft to be positioned so differently as to have one collide and the other miss with any frequency. That was why I was snide to him in my reply, because he didn't even try to think about it for himself, he just went with his "feelings". This is not a subject we humans can use our instinctive feelings about spatial relationships on. We must think about it to understand it.

Skilless · « **Reply #50 on:** December 11, 2005, 05:46:17 PM »

See Rule #4

Karnak · « **Reply #51 on:** December 11, 2005, 05:46:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
In the case I saw, I was out in the Sturmi dealing with annoying PT dweebs and this P47 came screaming in from dead 6. Never saw him until I saw the collision message - wasn't looking for him really, was just goofing around. After we exchanged a few head-ons and he saw I wasn't going to just give him another tail shot he decided to ... run. So I went back to shooting PT's ... at point he zoomed (I was watching him this time) and came back and repeated the exact same move. Nose-to-tail collision, no damage.

Maybe it's pings. Who knows. But I can't think of a fighter which should run into a Sturmi once and walk away unscathed - let alone twice.

How do you know that he collided on his FE?

If this is happening it is a bug and at some point some of us should go into the DA and get films of it to send to HTC so they can address it. They would need films from both participants.

Skilless · « **Reply #52 on:** December 11, 2005, 05:54:08 PM »

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Originally posted by Karnak

If the guy with high ping times sees the collision on his FE, his FE will then tell the sever that there was a collosion and his fighter took such and such damage. It is completely irrelevant what the other FE has already reported as far as the collision goes. Now if the ping time is bad enough on Player B then the server may very well award Player B and kill of Player A before it knows that Player B was also killed. I'm sure we have all had at least one or to instances of seeing both Player A and Player B getting credit for killing eachother. I certainly have.

The only thing you're leaving out is the fact that the computer with the lower ping rate will already have reported the collision before his opponent even sees it. The player with the higher ping rate cannot be rammed by a plane that already rammed him.

(by the way this is the first thread on this subject that I've posted to)

Karnak · « **Reply #53 on:** December 11, 2005, 06:03:33 PM »

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Originally posted by Skilless
The only thing you're leaving out is the fact that the computer with the lower ping rate will already have reported the collision before his opponent even sees it. The player with the higher ping rate cannot be rammed by a plane that already rammed him.

(by the way this is the first thread on this subject that I've posted to)

That should not be true. If it is true then it should be reported as a bug.

Also, the damage that Player B recieves in that scenario is applied by his FE before the server even knows about it. For it to work as you say people would have films of their airplanes regrowing wings and whatnot.

Skilless · « **Reply #54 on:** December 11, 2005, 06:11:01 PM »

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Originally posted by Karnak
That should not be true. If it is true then it should be reported as a bug.

Also, the damage that Player B recieves in that scenario is applied by his FE before the server even knows about it. For it to work as you say people would have films of their airplanes regrowing wings and whatnot.

But to the person with the most lag the collision never happens. I think the best way to settle this is to get someone with a super fast low ping connection and a person with a snail-paced dial-up, go to the DA and conduct some experiments.

Karnak · « **Reply #55 on:** December 11, 2005, 06:17:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Skilless
But to the person with the most lag the collision never happens. I think the best way to settle this is to get someone with a super fast low ping connection and a person with a snail-paced dial-up, go to the DA and conduct some experiments.

Why would the collision never happen for the person with bad lag?

If we are talking about a situation where the guy with bad lag honestly does not collide, well then he shouldn't suffer a collision. Keep in mind though that it is entirely possible for the guy with bad lag to collide on his FE and die due to it when the guy with the good ping time never sees the collision. Lag is a two way street and bad lag affects the player with it as well as those flying against him.

Shane · « **Reply #56 on:** December 11, 2005, 06:21:25 PM »

I dunno, but more often than not (99%) i get damage no matter hwo the ram collision message points to, often catastrophic dmg, while the other guy takes nothing to minimal dmg.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #57 on:** December 11, 2005, 06:28:37 PM »

See Rule #4

Shamus · « **Reply #58 on:** December 11, 2005, 06:30:03 PM »

See Rule #4

Blixen · « **Reply #59 on:** December 11, 2005, 06:33:18 PM »

la7 rammed me i got you have collided in text
and also ".........." has collided with u i went down "........." got kill
flew away and down another plane while i was in chute
so the "his fe didnt see it " is out the window