Can Ram Model Be Fixed?

[Alky]

Originally posted by storch
the ram model is totally bogus, both planes should die, no one should get a kill for it.

Exactly.. if the system knows me & so&so collided, then both die, right now!  That will cut back on HO's too.

[MOIL]

What IF, you made that if both planes "collided" (got the collide message) whoever it was that you "collided" with, weather you hit them or they hit you. Hell, even if you hit each other at the exact same time, BOTH planes should go down. Period.

That way, plane #1 doesn't fly off with just a scratch and the other tore all to hell. I don't know a ton about planes and flying, but I would guess if a P51 and a 109 ran into each other IRL both would prob suffer tremendous damage and plumett to Earth.

I don't think one of the pilots closes his eyes before impact and says to himself  "I didn't see a collide on my FE, so I guess it didn't happen"

[Karnak]

Originally posted by MOIL
What IF, you made that if both planes "collided" (got the collide message) whoever it was that you "collided" with, weather you hit them or they hit you. Hell, even if you hit each other at the exact same time, BOTH planes should go down. Period.

That way, plane #1 doesn't fly off with just a scratch and the other tore all to hell. I don't know a ton about planes and flying, but I would guess if a P51 and a 109 ran into each other IRL both would prob suffer tremendous damage and plumett to Earth.

I don't think one of the pilots closes his eyes before impact and says to himself  "I didn't see a collide on my FE, so I guess it didn't happen"

In that system what is to stop Pilot A from taking off to defend a field and ramming Pilot B who had to fly 10 minutes to get there?

Sure, they both go down, but Pilot A can just take off again and be where he was in 30 seconds whereas Pilot B just lost 10 minutes to a collision he had no way of avoiding or even anticipating.

[lasersailor184]

In regards to lasersailor's comment about not being able to induce a collision: yes, it's possible. http://www.furballunderground.com/f.../3/WadkeRam.ahf This may be a good illustration for others as to the different FEs of the participants, and illustrate the fact that I see wadke where he was, and he sees me where I was, resulting in his sudden violent demise.

I said deliberately collide.  

There was no way you could have known where to fly in the 3d world as to where he actually was.  He could have been to his left on your screen, to his right, further forward...

It's just dumb chance that you flew right onto the correct position.

[MOIL]

Karnak:
"In that system what is to stop Pilot A from taking off to defend a field and ramming Pilot B who had to fly 10 minutes to get there?"

Well, nothing is to stop him from such dweebery, but lets face it. people will continue to do stoopid things because, 1. it's a game and 2. There's no consequences for ones actions. No different than ramming the goon with your plane trying to save the field I guess

I just think if two planes collide they should both go down. Period!

Just my opinion  

[lasersailor184]

Yes, but the two planes aren't colliding!  That's the point!


If you do everything to avoid a collision on your end, why should you get punished because the other person is a ****ty pilot?

[Karnak]

Originally posted by MOIL
Karnak:
"In that system what is to stop Pilot A from taking off to defend a field and ramming Pilot B who had to fly 10 minutes to get there?"

Well, nothing is to stop him from such dweebery, but lets face it. people will continue to do stoopid things because, 1. it's a game and 2. There's no consequences for ones actions. No different than ramming the goon with your plane trying to save the field I guess

I just think if two planes collide they should both go down. Period!

Just my opinion  

You are welcome to your own opinion, but I would guess that you would quickly reverse your opinion once you saw how badly it could be gamed.

What we have currently certainly has some issues, but at least it is very difficult to game the game with it.

[wrag]

Originally posted by Karnak
Then I have good news for you, that isn't how it works.  Whoever sees the ram gets the ram.  It doesn't matter who's lag is what at all.

Part of the problem I think is that many of you don't think about what the time delay lag causes really means.  It does not mean that he sees the same thing you saw half a second ago.  It means he sees something different than what you see.

For example:

You and he are in the process of HOing eachother while having .5 seconds delay between your FEs.  He pulls up and to the side .4 seconds before impact and you do nothing.  What he sees is you pass under him and then explode well behind him.  What you see is him fly through you (and if you could stick around and watch he would then pull up and to the side).  He never sees himself fly through you.

Note that who had more lag was completely irrelevant to who collided.

Hmmmm.............

Not too long ago I got rammed from behind.  I wasn't looking that way.  Saw him coming in and tried to move to avoid. Applied rudder and rolled away.  At the time of the collision I was looking forward.  I went down with damage.

Twice I've moved to avoid a headon and on my FE sure looked to me like we missed each other but bang damage and down i go.

Been recording allot of film lately but not seeing the same stuff.

Filming and hopeing to catch it on film.  BUT noticing what I saw isn't always on film later.  Also noticed size of window for filming SEEMS to change just slightly the way stuff happens in some of the recorded films.  Saw this with older film where I fired and the bullets looked like I went right through and then when I enlarged the window it showed I just barely missed.

Collision model SEEMS change from about 2.5 patch on..........

[Mr No Name]

Originally posted by whels
u dont wana take that bet , ull lose.

2 guys went to DA, both purposely flew level through each other to test the collision model and connections.

they saw that  7 of the 10  collisions 1 plane only took damage even though they BOTH flew through to ram, and it was alway the better connect.


there are issues with the collision model, but  HT doesnt think so , so it wont be fixed.

its been posted what they are before.

Whels has it right 110%

[Mr No Name]

Originally posted by Shane
I dunno, but more often than not (99%) i get damage no matter hwo the ram collision message points to, often catastrophic dmg, while the other guy takes nothing to minimal dmg.

Couldnt happen to a nicer guy.....  


JK Shane, works that way for me too, have even collided 200+ yards away from other AC... here again I DIED... something HAS changed in spite of HTCs denial.. it may be an unintentional consequence of the new smoothing code and no direct collision model change... BUT something HAS changed.

[Karnak]

wrag,

Sorry, I phrased that too imprecisly.  You're taking "Whoever sees" too literally.  What I mean by that is whoever's FE detects a ram is who takes the damage, not that you actually have to have your view facing the right way to see it with your eyes.  I hope that clarifies it a bit.

[Mr No Name]

karnak it just doesnt always happen that way, not even half the time.  I get the message that the other player collided with ME.... I DIE or take heavy damage, he flies on.

[jaxxo]

"Your netspeed has no bearing on whether or not you suck so much you can't avoid the other plane.



Everyone here is whining thinking they are at the losing end of all of these rams. Ever stop to think that maybe you just can't fly your plane decently?

I can count on half of my right hand the number of times I've been involved in a ram or been rammed."

This is crap lol...someone explain to me how my straight and level buffs routinely get rammed from below behind and above from out of control pilots and my plane explodes while they fly away? how is my buff gonna ram someone else while on auto? do they pull away and my end sees that they actually hit me and i get a ram message? it all sounds like poor collision model coupled with lag issues to me..just turn it off already

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Mr No Name
karnak it just doesnt always happen that way, not even half the time.  I get the message that the other player collided with ME.... I DIE or take heavy damage, he flies on.

In the five years I've subscribed to this game it has always happened that way.  On the other hand I don't have a great statistical sampling of rams either given how rarely they happen to me.  Tonight Skilless and I did a brief test and it behaved exactly as I have described in this thread.

In the first test I flew next to Skilless and then slid sideways into him.  On my FE it looked like his wing entered my cockpit and on his FE it looked like I passed 50ft behind him.  I died, he did not.  The second test was the classic HO and I honestly didn't check to see who it claimed hit who or even if it reported both, but the result was that Skilless' Spit I and my Spit XIV both went down.  His ping was 68 and mine was 81.

[hubsonfire]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
I said deliberately collide.  

There was no way you could have known where to fly in the 3d world as to where he actually was.  He could have been to his left on your screen, to his right, further forward...

It's just dumb chance that you flew right onto the correct position.

No, it can be done, and I've done it quite a few times. As soon as I'm up and running again, I'll get more films. It's not rocket science; it's simply interpreting where your opponent will be, and where you will be. It's no different than lead shooting- I'm sure any number of pilots who are near average (I myself am well below average) could manage the same results, or better. You'll notice in the film viewer that I'd run out of ammo. While I didn't know this was Wadke (a squaddie), I knew I'd spoil his shot at the very least, and likely kill him regardless.

BTW, what's your ingame ID? Perhaps I'll ram you.