could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)

[Russian]

Originally posted by NUKE
It wasn't done by people jumping the fence. It was a spanish territory and had mexicans and americans living there long before mexico declared independence. BOTH American AND Mexican citzens of Texas declared, then won their independence from Mexico. Fair and square.

Mexicans were Spanish until they declared independence. Americans being on foreign soil and not of Spanish citizenship cannot declare foreign land their own just because they had majority of population (8000 Mexicans to 30,000 US ‘illigals’)

(I’ll be back in few hours.)

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Russian
Mexicans were Spanish until they declared independence.

Really? No people lived in the area before the Spanish came over? Amazing.

[Suave]

Yes the spanish american war is an unfortunate example of american imperialism. I know this because It was not censored form our history books.

Now why can't soviets admit any of the evils perpetrated by the USSR?

[Estel]

Originally posted by cpxxx
It was indoctrinated into to them form many years. Western Capitalism = Bad. Communism, socialism = good.

No, No and again No. We are not talking about an abstract capitalism model. We are talking about entirely particular, USA model. Western capitalism includes Swedish system. Wich is named as "Swedish Socialism". And for me, it's pretty good one system. I'm not basing on postulates of Goodness versus Evilness.
I'm looking onto living standards, law, medical care, education etc. And basing on this data I can say, do I want to live in that country or not. The same I can say about Socialism system. Because of unlike you, I live here. And I remember, what was Socialism. If you remember only KGB, ballet, Gagarin and GULAG, I remember free medical care. Free education. And really, I remember who were that KGB guys, because of some of them shared with me my breakfast :-)
Do you know, that in times of USSR, the crime level was the lowest in Europe? I remember, that our district militia officer didn't carry his gun in a holster. There was his lunch. Because there wasn't such idiots who just could take in mind to attack a militian.
What now? In USA blessed capitalism times? I can't go out from home without a gun. Because now, the city reminds me the battle field. Where every geek inludes me in target list.

Do you still think that Socialism time was so bad? Not for me.

Communism doesn't work and in any case is rarely practised as it usually ends up as a totalitarian state.

Every politicial system can end up as a totalitarian. Every one. And nobody proved that Communism will not work. It will.

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by Estel
Every politicial system can end up as a totalitarian. Every one. And nobody proved that Communism will not work. It will.

It works alright - by simple fear and the dehumanizing of the common citizen.

[lazs2]

now this is getting confusing... we add that mexico belonged to the spaniards?

Ok.. so I will admit that maybe in the west we did not know what soviet russia or it's satalites were like...

boroda has told me that everything was free... free housing. free education and free food and medical..

let's start from the beggining... everyone in the soviet union had the same house and medical care?  

Everyone worked hard at their job and the factories and farms gained by this and became the most productive in the world and.... just because there are russians everywhere in the U.S. and the world now and there weren't any before does not mean that the walls of soviet russia were any worse than the immigration policies of today?

I am having a hard time understanding how such a paradise failed.

You could of course have hot rods and firearms right?    Bet it was fun going from one russian garage to the next to see what trick parts your buddies were putting on their hot rods after they got home from school eh?

or maybe... you guys just went out into the country and plinked with your handguns and then went home and reloaded ammo?

maybe they jumped on the BB and talked politics or wrote angry letters to the editor about minor slights?

What other hobbies did soviets enjoy in all their free time?   What did they do with all that wealth that such a productive society made it's citizens?

I had allways heard soviet life was kinda grim and full of cheap vodka but.... maybe I am wrong.

lazs

[ATA]

You guys ever think that it may not be "Communism" or "Capitalism" that destroyed country?

Do you think if mighty USA had corrupted(as USSR ) government it would last longer that USSR?

[Masherbrum]

Karaya

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
Problem is, you seem to be a pathological liar.  You deny and refuse to give an inch, you are the "Katayn Expert, WMD Expert, Chernobyl Cleanup Expert, KGB Expert, the Communism was great for us Expert", and anything else you've spewed in here over the years.

If you didn't have basic Civil Defence training - you certainly should consider me an expert, especially if you think that VPHR detector tubes contain Zarin.

As for Chernobyl - here is a link to a department where I worked before our current IT department was formed. It's in Russian, so it's probably useless for such a great mind like you.

Originally posted by Masherbrum
I don't a smiley, I post facts.  

Let me refrain from defining what you post in public.

A smile that I missed:

[Russian]

Originally posted by NUKE
Really? No people lived in the area before the Spanish came over? Amazing.

The Spanish practiced assimilation tactics which allowed marriage to indigenous people. By the time they were done with locals, they were practically Spanish….

[mora]

Originally posted by Estel
And nobody proved that Communism will not work. It will.

Define "working".

[Russian]

Originally posted by lazs2


You could of course have hot rods and firearms right?    Bet it was fun going from one russian garage to the next to see what trick parts your buddies were putting on their hot rods after they got home from school eh?

or maybe... you guys just went out into the country and plinked with your handguns and then went home and reloaded ammo?

maybe they jumped on the BB and talked politics or wrote angry letters to the editor about minor slights?

What other hobbies did soviets enjoy in all their free time?   What did they do with all that wealth that such a productive society made it's citizens?

lazs

You’re judging someone by your standards. As I said before: to you, it will look like a ‘craphole’. Instead of guessing, be more diplomatic and ask questions that are not filled with assumptions. That is the only was to find common language and learn about other side. If you start assuming, person talking to you will put up a barrier which is very difficult to break down. As Da1e Carnegie said: Sincerely ask questions. What was USSR education like? How did people spend free time? Etc.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by cpxxx
Unfortunately Boroda has probably never lived in the west at all. That I believe has coloured his perception. Quite a few Russians are like that. All they see are the negatives. It was indoctrinated into to them form many years. Western Capitalism = Bad. Communism, socialism = good.  

I have spent 4 weeks in the US in 1989. My Mother is an Australian citizen now.

I don't say "good" or "bad". I say - "different". Let a hundreed flowers blossom istead of bombing people who want to be different.

The idea of the USSR as a place where you could get arrested for a "political" joke or being late to work and disappear is very wrong.

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by Russian
You’re judging someone by your standards.

We are well aware of your bias on this subject. But practice what you preach on 'judging standards'.

Originally posted by Russian
As I said before: to you, it will look like a ‘craphole’.

No No No; It's a veritable Shangri-La. Yeah, thats how most describe it if I remember correctly.....

I've got a few Russian friends here. None of them are itchin to get back. Funny

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Black Sheep
I've got a few Russian friends here. None of them are itchin to get back. Funny

Some people like priest, some like priest's daughter.

I have many friends and aquaintances who came back to Russia from the US and regret that they went there.

Could be funny if you have known people who decided to come home from the US.