Author Topic: could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)  (Read 6572 times)

Offline *NDM*JohnnyX

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #315 on: December 23, 2005, 08:43:57 PM »
This thread is a very good read. I think both sides are confused about the others point of view. So many things I've read that I'd like to comment on, but I jumped in too late to take part in. The one thing I'd like to point out however, is directed at whoever used the example of covert wiretaps approved by George Bush.

This is a terribly inaccurate way to point out the similarities between Soviet and American governments and their tactics. The difference is, there are realistic rumblings of President Bush being IMPEACHED over this. Couple this with the WMD debacle in Iraq, and it's safe to say there is a possibility he will be removed from power. Not going to say what my personal belief on the matter is, but I'm pretty sure if it was revealed that, say, Stalin had secret wiretaps, there wouldn't be a way to remove him from power.

I think that's the main difference between our Republic, and your Marxist/Leninist/Stalinist form of government. We elect the people to make the laws, and if we don't like the laws made or the people that made them, we have recourse to change the situation. In the C.C.C.P., as I understand it, there was no way to affect these things.

I'm not saying Communism is evil, and I'm not saying it's not the right form of government for you. I'm also not saying the American Republic is ideal for you either. What I am saying however is, as I understand it through independant research, our Republic grants many more personal freedoms than your form of government did, and for us Americans, those freedoms are more important to us than a house or food.

It's why our army fights and dies, not for our government or our land, but for our way of life.

Offline Staga

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #316 on: December 24, 2005, 03:58:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
You are trying put the problems YOU CREATED on the rest of the world.

 



I know quite a many Russians and that is quite common feature with them: They really create problems with their own behaviour but put the blame on others. Quite fascinating to watch when you know the drill.

Don't get me wrong; Russians I've met have been very friendly and hospitable people but they have their own habits like one above.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2005, 04:00:57 AM by Staga »

Offline Boroda

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #317 on: December 24, 2005, 09:51:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by moot
my specialty is biochemistry.


Colleague.

http://ibcp.chph.ras.ru

I work in Bio-Chemical Physics Institute of Russian Academy of Science.

Offline lazs2

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #318 on: December 24, 2005, 10:01:07 AM »
boroda.... Ok... I will go with you on there not being any real communism...

If that is true then I will take the form of communism that we have here in the states so long as we can get rid of some of the socialism we have here now..

say, let's go back to the laws we had before FDR socialism.

lets say that the last place I would like to live would be old soviet russia.

you talk on nonsegregation .... that is laughable... you had to import a colored guy to play othelo.... when the walls came down... every jew worth a damn (plus anyone else who could) left your paradise of diversity... you are not getting along with your muslims at all but ours are running 7/11's and seem happy as hell.

lazs

Offline Grayeagle

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #319 on: December 24, 2005, 03:39:05 PM »
hiya :)

Basic problem with getting a good leader is.. they never last long enough.

All you get is a coupla decades .. then it's time to go through the whole 'who's gonna fill his shoes?' routine.
The US gov't at least tries for some kind of transition that doesn't involve shooting between changes of leadership.

Personally.. I like the fact that there are not only limits on what can be done, there is also a huge amount of inertia to overcome to get anything done at all.
The President is just the point man.
He can't do anything without sellin it to the Judicial and House branches.

And to make anything 'permanent' .. LOL .. you need massive popular support for that to happen .. which those guys who signed the Declaration engineered. They were some of the sharpest knives in the drawer when it came to making a govenment 'for the people .. of the people.'

As to the original thread question. . I am glad the USSR is gone.
It was an 'Evil Empire.' -tm Ronald Reagan
-
As to National Attitudes:
After Pearl Harbor the US determined that it would never be caught out like that again. So the US armed itself for worst case scenarios.

After Belarossa, the USSR determined it would never be caught like that again. So it armed itself for worst case scenarios.

It's a wonder no mistakes happened that led to WW3.
With a single individual holding the trigger, it would have been easy.
(anyone can have a bad day)

Thank God it wasn't a single individual on either side.
-
Comment was made about South Korea not havin to pay for its defense ..
..not true.
US forces there are very much the minority.. training, leadership, and restraint is what I saw.
The South Korean military would rather settle North Korea's hash right now .. and they feel it would only take a couple of days tops.
They are balls out, all the time, 24/7.

Did you know they bought an entire factory to build F-5's decades ago .. and other things.
Can you imagine a second lootenant in an F-5 *not* being King of the World?
Did you know they have *thousands* of them?
(both the planes, and the pilots).
-
Funny thing about 'Mother Russia' ..term coined by leaders in Moscow to motivate their troops in WW2. It worked so they named the conflict 'The Great Patriotic War' and created 'Hero's of the Soviet Union' ..morale booster terms coined in Moscow during the dark days when most didn't know if the Axis could be stopped.
The US created 'Aces' and war bond tours were done by its more well known airmen/soldiers/seamen.. same reasons.

-just my two coppa from an ex-USAF Electronic Warfare troop who helped keep some of those 'Yankee Air Pirates' from gettin shot down instead of Jane Fonda, posturing with the gunners below, exercising her right to be blonde, bimbo, and stupid.

-GE
« Last Edit: December 24, 2005, 03:41:20 PM by Grayeagle »
'The better I shoot ..the less I have to manuever'
-GE

Offline moot

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #320 on: December 25, 2005, 09:43:48 AM »
That's cool Boroda, I might have to pick your brains sometime..
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline weaselsan

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #321 on: December 25, 2005, 08:21:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by *NDM*JohnnyX

This is a terribly inaccurate way to point out the similarities between Soviet and American governments and their tactics. The difference is, there are realistic rumblings of President Bush being IMPEACHED over this. Couple this with the WMD debacle in Iraq, and it's safe to say there is a possibility he will be removed from power.  


LOL...You can relax, the only thing the Dummycrats can do for the forseeable (Far Distant) future is fillibuster. They don't have the political power to do squat. It's amazing how they took a political party that had a 3 to 1 ratio of registered voters, into a minority party.

Offline ~Caligula~

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #322 on: December 25, 2005, 09:12:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
Caligula, if I was not an American by birth,  I would hope to be Israeli. You have one hell of a great country and your history is amazing. Nothing can keep you down.

The USSR was an evil empire, just like RR said it was.


Thanks..
U should come visit..plenty of great places to see,from ancient ruins to knocked out russian tanks. Red sea scuba diving...and the hottest women that love americans and their money.Cheap russian vodka(better than absolute IMO)...lebanese hash...I could go on and on...

Offline ATA

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #323 on: December 25, 2005, 10:43:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ~Caligula~
Thanks..
U should come visit..plenty of great places to see,from ancient ruins to knocked out russian tanks. Red sea scuba diving...and the hottest women that love americans and their money.Cheap russian vodka(better than absolute IMO)...lebanese hash...I could go on and on...

There should be planty of Israeli's burnt down by Egipt army tanks left also.
Where would you be without USA,you were given a country,could not even create one....after 5000 years.

Offline NUKE

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #324 on: December 25, 2005, 10:46:08 PM »
Deleted.

4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2005, 11:48:54 PM by MP8 »

Offline NUKE

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #325 on: December 25, 2005, 11:42:30 PM »
Deleted.

4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2005, 11:50:37 PM by MP8 »

Offline NUKE

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #326 on: December 26, 2005, 12:03:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ATA
There should be planty of Israeli's burnt down by Egipt army tanks left also.
Where would you be without USA,you were given a country,could not even create one....after 5000 years.


What did you do to earn your place in America?

Offline 1K3

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #327 on: December 26, 2005, 12:11:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ATA
There should be planty of Israeli's burnt down by Egipt army tanks left also.
Where would you be without USA,you were given a country,could not even create one....after 5000 years.


we got ANTI Semite here caught red handed :O

Offline ~Caligula~

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #328 on: December 26, 2005, 07:05:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ATA
There should be planty of Israeli's burnt down by Egipt army tanks left also.
Where would you be without USA,you were given a country,could not even create one....after 5000 years.


I haven`t seen any israeli tanks knocked out and left around like that. Israel happened to win all these wars.Regardless of what the origins of the weapons(not all from US..merkava, kfir, s-99...) it was the people who fought and won these wars.
BTW we survived the assirians,persians, babilonians, seleucids (happy hannuka),romans,spanish inqusition,russian pogroms, german nazis etc.....make no mistake, we`ll survive U and ur kind as well!

Offline ATA

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #329 on: December 26, 2005, 12:06:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
What did you do to earn your place in America?

And what did you do?
You were born here.....