Author Topic: A timid Pilot  (Read 2026 times)

Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Re: Re: Re: A timid Pilot
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2005, 08:21:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zazen13
That's exactly correct. Show me a purely timid pilot and I'll show you a guy who isn't killing anything. On the other hand a smart pilot is selectively aggressive or selectively timid as the case may be. Too many times I have heard timidity ubiquitously used as a term to describe anyone who won't fight where, when, how, if the name-caller wants to. I'm not sure how many here are military history buffs but one common thing all battlefield commanders pride themsleves on is the ability to engineer circumstances whereby they dictate when, where, how, and if a fight occurs, it's called maintaining strategic initiative. Flying smart is simply using this initiative to manipulate others into falling into YOUR trap while avoiding  falling into THEIR trap. I use the term Tactical Awareness to describe 'smart flying'. Smart Flying/Tactical Awareness is knowing, instantly, intuitively :

A) When to engage
B) When to disengage
C) When to get low and slow
D) When not to get low and slow
E) When to stay high and preserve energy
F) When to switch targets mid-fight

This may seem very subtle, but more than anything except possibly gunnery this mystical 'Tactical Awareness', which is basically the active principle of Situational Awareness, determines the success or failure of the average MA fighter pilot.

Zazen



Damn, that was a very interesting observation of ones mental picture during a sortie, Zaz..........TY
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline SMIDSY

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A timid Pilot
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2005, 08:28:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
TC...i have a good F4U clip for ya. Me in P51...Blukitty in C-Hog. Kicked my butt!


im not suprised. corsair has better stall charactaristics because of it's larger wing area and massive flaps. also it rolls better at high speed due to its larger control surfaces.

Offline Saxman

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« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2005, 08:33:41 PM »
There's a Channel 200? :D

I agree with the (seemingly) minority opinion that it's a mistake to pass BnZ off as "timidity" out of hand. It takes a certain amount of aggressiveness to BnZ effectively (I certainly qualify as "over aggressive," as I'll take my F4U straight into mid-speed E or turn-fight against about anything).
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Zazen13

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A timid Pilot
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2005, 08:35:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TequilaChaser
Damn, that was a very interesting observation of ones mental picture during a sortie, Zaz..........TY


Happy to entertain as always! <> :)

Zazen
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Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline Zazen13

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« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2005, 08:52:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saxman
There's a Channel 200? :D

I agree with the (seemingly) minority opinion that it's a mistake to pass BnZ off as "timidity" out of hand. It takes a certain amount of aggressiveness to BnZ effectively (I certainly qualify as "over aggressive," as I'll take my F4U straight into mid-speed E or turn-fight against about anything).


That's a good point. Being selectively aggressive is an artform unto itself, too selective and you become too timid to get kills, too aggressive and you become too reckless to land them. There's a dichotomous balance between the two. Too many people don't keep flexible about how they think and fight. Remaining flexible in your approach is the key to success, take shots of opportunity, don't over-comit to one enemy or in a bad situation, abort an attack when any possible shooting opportunity is blown, pull up in a complex engagement to regain E and re-assess the local tactical picture before re-engaging, all of this is what makes for a good MA fighter pilot, sound fighter tactics.

There's a million ways to E-Fight, E-Figthing by its very nature is more subtle than angles fighting, the rope is a great example of the finesse required, too much rope and the fish gets off the hook, too little rope and he pours lead into your hanging plane. BnZ'ing is really just one form of E Fighting, BnZ'ing is actually one of the most blatantly aggressive form of  attacks there is, time is of the essence with a BnZ pass, the average person checks his 6 o' clock every 8 seconds, that's your window of opportunity before he manuevers radically. Unlike the rope or a subtle Immelman turn the BnZ pass requires 100% commitment by the attacker. There is a point of no return from which the attacker loses so much energy he cannot sustain an advantage so must kill, egress or co-E fight a presumably more manueverable plane. I think what alot of people call timidty is a BnZer who decides for whatever reason to not pass that point of no return, basically he aborts his attack.

Do not assume just because someone has the advantage but is not attacking you he is timid. I for one have a favorite pattern I follow when hunting. For example if there is just me higher than several enemy and few if any friendlies in the vicinity I will deliberately not attack right away. I'll deliberatly take some half-arsed passes to keep their heads down. I'll often just hang there until they have forgotten about me, then BAM! Often I'll drag a few away from the rest to friends. That's not being timid, that's just tactics...;)

The sad fact is better than half of the MA pilots have really bad SA, they don't realize other reasons that guy isn't engaging them, he may be setting them up, he may be keeping them from gaining altitude until help arrives, there may be other enemy that are just waiting for him to commit to pounce he is aware of. A big source of the timidity complaints are people who choose to fly really slow planes that turn really well. A) A slow plane only gets a fight if the enemy chooses to oblidge them and B) If your plane out-turns every other plane in the air not many are going to want to get in tight with you, they'll cherry or BnZ you when our SA is down instead, as they should. So, if you want a 'less timid' opponent fly a faster plane that doesn't turn so well and your wish will be granted.

Zazen
« Last Edit: December 17, 2005, 10:07:37 PM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline Lazerr

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« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2005, 10:30:32 PM »
Only thing a Jeep product is good for is straight baja'n.... runnin watermelon over, and doin it with ease. :D

Offline Morpheus

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« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2005, 10:49:32 PM »
hehe morph is teh timid:D
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Offline Oldman731

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« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2005, 11:24:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zazen13
I for one have a favorite pattern I follow when hunting. For example if there is just me higher than several enemy and few if any friendlies in the vicinity I will deliberately not attack right away. I'll deliberatly take some half-arsed passes to keep their heads down. I'll often just hang there until they have forgotten about me, then BAM! Often I'll drag a few away from the rest to friends. That's not being timid, that's just tactics...;)

But don't you find that, no matter how real-to-life-accurate it may be, it's just plain boring?  Waiting until the guy forgets about you and then shooting him?

- oldman

Offline Saxman

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« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2005, 12:13:33 AM »
Well, if the guy forgets he's there, he sorta deserves to get shot.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Zazen13

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« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2005, 12:37:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Oldman731
But don't you find that, no matter how real-to-life-accurate it may be, it's just plain boring?  Waiting until the guy forgets about you and then shooting him?

- oldman


This is a 1 vs. many situation I am illustrating here, diving on multiple enemy that are aware of you is pretty futile unless they really, really suck and I never assume my opponent sucks unless he proves it to me. ;) A single enemy would be a different story, I could press the attack amidst his evasives without pulling my pants down for his buddies.

Zazen
« Last Edit: December 18, 2005, 12:40:25 AM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline Zazen13

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« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2005, 12:39:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saxman
Well, if the guy forgets he's there, he sorta deserves to get shot.


Fortuantely for Cherry Pickers the average attention span of the average person in the MA is about 15 seconds, 5 seconds less than my dog. :O

Zazen
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline Kermit de frog

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A timid Pilot
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2005, 12:52:50 AM »
I reviewed the film.
Initially, I was thinking that you were another 109 timid pilot I encountered earlier that got away.
Didn't realize that was you until you killed my squaddie.
I didn't realize that you were also avoiding my squaddie and another countryman until they were already on you.
Once I had seen that you killed those 2 and your engine was hurt, I was willing to call it quits.  Then you pressed on.  I now know that since your engine oil was hit, you were more aggressive and that is why you finally chopped throttle.  I on the other had was to equalize the E states.  Once I was close enough, I thought I'd just shoot you once you went for rope again.  unfortunately, you countered it and got me.  In the end, you didn't deserve a salute from me but, maybe from the other 2.  You did not fly "timid".  I shouldn't tell you to fly with more balls either because it's your money and time.
My bad.

P.S.
I didn't mean to make you angry Bodhi.  I still don't understand why you are involved.  It doesn't matter.

Carry on.
Time's fun when you're having flies.

Offline Morpheus

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« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2005, 01:40:10 AM »
you went down the the deck. that was your choice. you were at 11k and i was 12 i did an emil up to 14k or so came around saw your buddies there waiting for me to in on you so i worked you down until they got within fighting distance. Killed them and then finished with you. we had realatively the same E.

I knew it was you and i knew you would whine. I dont want your salute, i want you to eat my 30's and take it like a man.
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Offline killnu

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« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2005, 07:24:02 AM »
Mugz, after your first pass, and i called pilot wound on 200 and you still extended 2k until i turned...yea i call that timid.  Then you engage after i break and made a few more of these passes picking off pieces then getting an engine.  after calling out on 200 that i was now pilot wounded and one engine, you extended 5k.  there is a line  between smart and timid.  like i said that night, fly how you want...you want to fly timid, go right ahead.  The extending 2k wasnt that bad, but throw in the fact i told you i was pilot wounded and eventually one engine then you extend 5k, that timid in my book.  you can write your book any way you like tho.
~S~

oh yea, to PM me in game the way you have about this, then to read your smak here...amazing the difference in tone b/n the two.:aok
Karma, it follows you every where you go...

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Offline BlkKnit

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A timid Pilot
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2005, 08:21:04 AM »
I dont get why the enemy always wants to get on my 6.....any brave warrior would set up for a HO! ;)

Seriously, I hate running into a timid pilot, but I REALLY hate running into smart and careful pilot.  They shoot me down from a position of advantage.....then I up from a nearby base and come in co-alt and they shoot me down without advantage.  That really T's me off!  I understand that someone has to lose, but why's it always gotta be me?

Personally, I cant see how Mugz' victim could expect him to know that he had a pilot wound and exactly when he was blacked out.  I've sometimes thought my opponent was wounded, only to get my hiney handed to me (and even then he may actually have been wounded too).

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