Finally!

[Sandman_SBM]

I agree with Bush!



------------------
cheers,
sand
screamin blue messiahs
The SBM's are hiring!

[Ripsnort]

Freedom of choice.

[Eagler]

Yep, me too  

His bro has been trying to implement a similar policy here in FL but the libs keep getting in the way at every turn. Funny how the teachers (and their union <- major democrat contributors) are against a performance review of their own performance. Seems the rest of us are held to a standard but they shouldn't be??

Eagler

[Sandman_SBM]

The school voucher prop came up on California last year. It failed horribly.

[mietla]

I'm all for private schools, but I'm against the vouchers. All the vouchers would do is to give the feds an excuse to fcuk with private schools (in effect turning them into public schools), and raising the tuition in private schools to whatever it is right now + the voucher.

What I want is (at the very least) an exempttion from paying for public schools. My kids never atttended one. I had to pay tuition for private schools on top of the taxes I paid for pubic schools.

Or better yet, abolish public schools altogether. The government has no right to indoctrinate my children.


 

[Eagler]

 

Originally posted by mietla:
What I want is (at the very least) an exempttion from paying for public schools. My kids never atttended one. I had to pay tuition for private schools on top of the taxes I paid for pubic schools.

Or better yet, abolish public schools altogether. The government has no right to indoctrinate my children.

Yes, I feel those in private school should get the "voucher" or tax break or whatever label you put on it. Or as you stated, do away with public schools all together, let us use the money to fund our child's education as we, the parents, deem fit. Problem is many are not disciplined enough to provide for their kids even if given the money. They'd blow it on the WWF pay per views, cheap beer and cigs  

The current system is corrupt with politics. I'm for a change and the Republicans "scheme" would work if given a chance. The teachers who are against it are those job scared as they know they are under qualified to teach properly.

Eagler

[Fatty]

Meitla, this may come as some suprise, so sit down.  Private schools run their pricing based on the maximum benifit of price vs number of students.  No school is likely to get more than a handful of "voucher students", leaving that model basically unchanged.

You really think they would go so far as to ruin their profit level just to raise tuition to "tuition + voucher"?

[mietla]

Actualy, higher prices are secondary here. I don't want the government anywhere near my children's school.

[Fatty]

This is the first argument I've heard this is unfair to private schools, and frankly I don't get it.

You're afraid that what in effect are scholarships are going to ruin their school?

[mietla]

Yes. It'll give the government an excuse to "reward/punish" schools for complying with governtment's wishes. You know, every fed dollar has strings attached.

It may take some time for it to happen, but once we allow it in principle, it is just a matter of time when they take over the whole thing.

Remember when they introduced 16-th Amendment? They sold it to the public by promissing that only 1% of people will pay an income tax, and that it will never exceed 1% of the income. Yeah, right...

Only public schools benefit from vouchers. They get to keep at least half of the money, and don't have to provide any services to the kid who left.



[This message has been edited by mietla (edited 04-13-2001).]

[Fatty]

Yet it is still a free market.

If letting standards fall to comply with a percieved government control then they risk losing consumers, not to mention lose the potential new capital as their changes make them no longer attractive to the parents with the vouchers.

If for some reason goverment controls to get ahold of the vouchers to degenerate the school quality, you can be assured there will be no shortage of those not complying, and making more money from that.  There is nothing forcing them to, and in such a situation (which has a bit of paranoia thrown in), it would be extremely profitable for them to do so.

[-ammo-]

 

Originally posted by mietla:
Yes. It'll give the government an excuse to "reward/punish" schools for complying with governtment's wishes. You know, every fed dollar has strings attached.

Well  this is definately true. I paya dear price to keep my 3 boys in a private Christian school. Our school doesn't except any Government funds for the exact reason Mietla has stated. This school does have the 10 commandments posted on teh wall, uses corporal punishment, a dress code (very modest), prays in meetings, has chapel for teh kids every day..etc..etc. And for certain we dont want anyone raising a stink over any aspect of it. Theoretically someone could have an issue, go to the courthouse and file suit, and becuase of Governemnt funds/involvement , they could make a case.

anyway you get the picture, and he does have a point.

ammo

[Kieran]

 

Funny how the teachers (and their union <- major democrat contributors) are against a performance review of their own performance.

I am not, I welcome it. Please, tell me your qualifications for evaluating my performance as a teacher. While you're at it, include your career field so I can evaluate you too. For what it is worth I do not maintain a union membership because I object strongly to the representation and its affiliations.  

Give Mietla a cigar, he is exactly right. If private schools compete for government money they will have to cow-tow to government whims. Further- and this is the part you guys have missed- they will have to cow-tow to the public themselves. What advantage private schools possess is gained by the fact they are exclusive, and can tell parents to take off when they become too much of a hassle. If the private schools become dependent on public money (and once you put up brand new buildings from all that money you have coming in you are most definitely hooked) you can bet they will bend to public demand. It will take time, but in the end it will happen.

It all sounds so easy, doesn't it? Yet, for all the experts we have telling us what a rotten job teachers do, how they don't care, how they try to avoid responsibility, not one has stepped forward and shown us any proof they have a better way. Hey, I know schools are in trouble. I know they have to change, and I have to constantly change in order to keep up with the demands of my profession. If vouchers work, great, that is what should happen. I don't happen to believe vouchers are the panacea some of you think they are as they only sidestep the core problems.

Public education is in trouble largely because of the way our society is evolving. We are diverse, and we have many different ways of solving any school-related issue you care to discuss. If I say "expulsion, yes or no?" you will find myriad answers to the question. 20 years ago people might have kept that response to themselves, no more. Now everyone feels empowered to march into a classroom and get in a teacher's face- and they do. What do we do? The school's power comes from the community it serves- remember that. If the community says this is acceptable behavior, that is what happens. If the community decides that teaching sex education in 5th grade is ok, that is what happens. The problem is what do you do when your community is diverse and mixed signals are sent to the school? What happens if your state legislature, based on lobbyist pressure or powerful advocacy groups passes an ill-advised intiative?

Don't get me wrong. I am not angry about yet another stereotype of the kind listed above, that is part of the game. You should know I walk into my classroom every day and give everything I have to move my students forward and prepare them for the next year and the rest of their lives. Don't feel sorry for me, I picked my career and love it. I am happy most of the time and can't think of doing anything else. I just couldn't let the stereotype pass unanswered.

[Yeager]

You know, the one thing I like about geedubya is the perception I have that he is a genuinely honest man.  I have my concerns about his politics but at least I feel that what I see of him is by and large, who he really is.

Refreashing considering the previous occupant, for me at least.

Y

[mietla]

Kieren,
I can't fully reply now (Easter cooking/preparations etc.), but tomorrow I think I'll share my cigar with you.

And I don't mean to give you a butt, I mean split it in half, you deserve it. You have good points I would like to address.

Till tomorrow...